min41/right table: im just wondering if having a somewhat balanced river checking range is good for us. you talk about having some random bluffs here when really you do not have any bluffs on K99ssXsXr if u 3barell. but you can definitly second barell something like AJTX with the nutflushblocker and then give up the river (or go crazy and take that hand as a three street bluff).
especially against an agressive villain who can double float us rather light and try to make our live hell OTR it is nice to have a checking range that contains c/f, c/ca and c/ra as well just to prevent him a bit from putting a lot of our flushes in fml spots OTR.
Hey, thanks for another concise question. Definitely having a balanced checking range on lockdown boards like this is important, particularly being so deep up against an aggro opponent like this who is capable of applying pressure.
Given we're so deep and I 3bet pre, he's likely to give me credit for quite a high card, big pair kind of combo so would be likely to float me with a lot of hands, both pure bluffs and hands that have potential.
Even if I had a strong-ish hand like 94 on this run out, betting and getting raised on the river puts us in a very ugly spot. So I think I'm rarely triple barrelling a run-out like this so deep, checking here protects us with the weaker portions of range such as flushes, allows us to pot control with our medium strength hands that don't want to get 200bb in, and gets us value against bluffs/gives us the potential to get in a c/r and stack him. Does also provide us with the opportunity to bluff ourselves with blockers if we have a particularly aggro dynamic.
When we have a balanced checking range on this river, we take away a lot of the power of his position, given that he still has to be legitimately worried about us having nut hands as we won't be capped.
Thanks for taking the time to look into this one. I was just wondering if it's even worth it at small stakes but given that only check folding and check calling in that river spot is so easy to exploit I figured versus a somewhat thinking opponent is actually mandatory.
Talking about bluffraising with a very aggressive dynamic. Are you suggesting check shipping AKQx with nutspade(blocker)?
I think when I said 'aggro dynamic' that may not have been the best way to phrase what I meant (as having an aggro image may result in us being called down lighter in this spot!). To make a play like this, I would certainly want some history/potential reads on the opponent. We've checked the river so often this is going to mean we have a hand that has some showdown value. 1. if our opponent is never applying pressure and pure bluffing/turning some marginals into bluffs when he realises his hand may be no good or 2. isn't capable of making some fairly big laydowns, then bluffing here will be burning money. Although it's frustrating against players like that, especially if we have some decent blockers, sometimes you will just be able to pick a better spot and certainly one where you won't be risking so much.
But yeah, c/jamming river is an option and allows us to maximize the pressure we apply. I don't think having the nutspade blocker is all too relevant, though it may be a reason why we've made it to a river and need to bluff. Triple-barrelling with just the NFB or even NF seems too thin/puts us in awkward spots as we talked about above.
In terms of blockers, having a K is essential (for obvious reasons, I think not having it and going that crazy against pretty much anyone playing these games is a bit too on the wild side!), and preferably blockers to other pairs on board as well so 7s and 4s, making it less likely he has boat and so more likely that we do when we bomb it.
Yeah I don't think the the nutflush blocker is relevant at all when we do decide to bluffship the river except for us to only be bluffing very few times. If even need to have bluffs in our range at all
17:45 you call pre vs a ss with K993 rr? Can you explain your reasoning? Galfond would fall out of his chair if he saw someone call from bb with a hand that bad.
at 20:48 I don't understand your raise. We still have some decent equity we can turn with this hand. I dont think hes folding this flop if he has any over pair with any equity. And we are gonna be op on the turn with marginal drawing hand. You said your happy getting this hand in. I would not be. If he has set or flush draw to go with any made hand we are behind. If i had pair of 2s or 5s I could see more merit in making a move. But 8s is a little better and if we turn Q or 9 we have top 2 pair which is not bad. Maybe i am wrong on it but I think its easier to play if we just call instead of bloating the pot. So your barreling the K i don't thinks folding the turn with a club draw here and a pair unless you bet close to pot. ya 13/18 to small. I think he will go to the river with flush draw or even shove over your bet. I agree he should of repopped the flop or made move on the turn he played his hand way to passively It worked out for you but Id rather do it with medium or bottom pair type hand so if i am reraised I am not in a tough spot.
24:54 you 3b QJJ6 ss to Q I dont really like it your almost 200 bbs deep. What are you hoping to hit other then J or a straight? Everything else is really not going to give you a nut type flop. Your going to be facing a lot of tough board textures op and deep. Can you explain why you like 3b this particular hand? Something more connected like QJJ9 or even QJJ6 ds I see some merit. It seems like a really tough hand to play that deep op.
Wait a minute then you check call the turn. Your turning your hand face up on the turn. Once you check and he bets its fold imo. I would rather bet and try take him off QQ or maybe even the nut flush draw. He may not have K here and be floating. Id rather bet fold or bet check river. Even if we check the river after 2 barrels it still looks strong enough that he would worry we are trapping with a boat and might give up and we win the pot. It just seems harder to play if we check the turn. I would of just check folded. maybe its to nitty but I just feel hes gonna fire the river to often. Ok i just saw him pot the river. I would do the same as he did with your line.
17:45 you call pre vs a ss with K993 rr? Can you explain your reasoning? Galfond would fall out of his chair if he saw someone call from bb with a hand that bad.
at 20:48 I don't understand your raise. We still have some decent equity we can turn with this hand. I dont think hes folding this flop if he has any over pair with any equity. And we are gonna be op on the turn with marginal drawing hand. You said your happy getting this hand in. I would not be. If he has set or flush draw to go with any made hand we are behind. If i had pair of 2s or 5s I could see more merit in making a move. But 8s is a little better and if we turn Q or 9 we have top 2 pair which is not bad. Maybe i am wrong on it but I think its easier to play if we just call instead of bloating the pot. So your barreling the K i don't thinks folding the turn with a club draw here and a pair unless you bet close to pot. ya 13/18 to small. I think he will go to the river with flush draw or even shove over your bet. I agree he should of repopped the flop or made move on the turn he played his hand way to passively It worked out for you but Id rather do it with medium or bottom pair type hand so if i am reraised on the flop I wont have to jam.
at 30:00 you don't bet your flush on the turn... When he bets the flop and checks the turn I think we need to get value against 2 pair, sets, even maybe some pair with a straight draw and also a possible straight. I would bet like maybe 1/2 pot here. But I would not want to give him a free card and let him realize his equity if he does 2 pair or set kind of hand. Can you explain why you would check this turn? Our hand still very vulnerable here to a lot of river cards. I think its good spot to protect your hand. And if we raises we find out our flush is probably no good on the turn instead of guessing on the river. I understand the deceptive part your taking but still a lot of value hands he will be calling with on this some what connectec turn. I am still learning PLO sorry for all the questioning it just seems very odd with the lines your taking.
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min41/right table: im just wondering if having a somewhat balanced river checking range is good for us. you talk about having some random bluffs here when really you do not have any bluffs on K99ssXsXr if u 3barell. but you can definitly second barell something like AJTX with the nutflushblocker and then give up the river (or go crazy and take that hand as a three street bluff).
especially against an agressive villain who can double float us rather light and try to make our live hell OTR it is nice to have a checking range that contains c/f, c/ca and c/ra as well just to prevent him a bit from putting a lot of our flushes in fml spots OTR.
Hey, thanks for another concise question. Definitely having a balanced checking range on lockdown boards like this is important, particularly being so deep up against an aggro opponent like this who is capable of applying pressure.
Given we're so deep and I 3bet pre, he's likely to give me credit for quite a high card, big pair kind of combo so would be likely to float me with a lot of hands, both pure bluffs and hands that have potential.
Even if I had a strong-ish hand like 94 on this run out, betting and getting raised on the river puts us in a very ugly spot. So I think I'm rarely triple barrelling a run-out like this so deep, checking here protects us with the weaker portions of range such as flushes, allows us to pot control with our medium strength hands that don't want to get 200bb in, and gets us value against bluffs/gives us the potential to get in a c/r and stack him. Does also provide us with the opportunity to bluff ourselves with blockers if we have a particularly aggro dynamic.
When we have a balanced checking range on this river, we take away a lot of the power of his position, given that he still has to be legitimately worried about us having nut hands as we won't be capped.
Thanks for taking the time to look into this one. I was just wondering if it's even worth it at small stakes but given that only check folding and check calling in that river spot is so easy to exploit I figured versus a somewhat thinking opponent is actually mandatory.
Talking about bluffraising with a very aggressive dynamic. Are you suggesting check shipping AKQx with nutspade(blocker)?
I think when I said 'aggro dynamic' that may not have been the best way to phrase what I meant (as having an aggro image may result in us being called down lighter in this spot!). To make a play like this, I would certainly want some history/potential reads on the opponent. We've checked the river so often this is going to mean we have a hand that has some showdown value. 1. if our opponent is never applying pressure and pure bluffing/turning some marginals into bluffs when he realises his hand may be no good or 2. isn't capable of making some fairly big laydowns, then bluffing here will be burning money. Although it's frustrating against players like that, especially if we have some decent blockers, sometimes you will just be able to pick a better spot and certainly one where you won't be risking so much.
But yeah, c/jamming river is an option and allows us to maximize the pressure we apply. I don't think having the nutspade blocker is all too relevant, though it may be a reason why we've made it to a river and need to bluff. Triple-barrelling with just the NFB or even NF seems too thin/puts us in awkward spots as we talked about above.
In terms of blockers, having a K is essential (for obvious reasons, I think not having it and going that crazy against pretty much anyone playing these games is a bit too on the wild side!), and preferably blockers to other pairs on board as well so 7s and 4s, making it less likely he has boat and so more likely that we do when we bomb it.
Yeah I don't think the the nutflush blocker is relevant at all when we do decide to bluffship the river except for us to only be bluffing very few times. If even need to have bluffs in our range at all
17:45 you call pre vs a ss with K993 rr? Can you explain your reasoning? Galfond would fall out of his chair if he saw someone call from bb with a hand that bad.
at 20:48 I don't understand your raise. We still have some decent equity we can turn with this hand. I dont think hes folding this flop if he has any over pair with any equity. And we are gonna be op on the turn with marginal drawing hand. You said your happy getting this hand in. I would not be. If he has set or flush draw to go with any made hand we are behind. If i had pair of 2s or 5s I could see more merit in making a move. But 8s is a little better and if we turn Q or 9 we have top 2 pair which is not bad. Maybe i am wrong on it but I think its easier to play if we just call instead of bloating the pot. So your barreling the K i don't thinks folding the turn with a club draw here and a pair unless you bet close to pot. ya 13/18 to small. I think he will go to the river with flush draw or even shove over your bet. I agree he should of repopped the flop or made move on the turn he played his hand way to passively It worked out for you but Id rather do it with medium or bottom pair type hand so if i am reraised I am not in a tough spot.
24:54 you 3b QJJ6 ss to Q I dont really like it your almost 200 bbs deep. What are you hoping to hit other then J or a straight? Everything else is really not going to give you a nut type flop. Your going to be facing a lot of tough board textures op and deep. Can you explain why you like 3b this particular hand? Something more connected like QJJ9 or even QJJ6 ds I see some merit. It seems like a really tough hand to play that deep op.
Wait a minute then you check call the turn. Your turning your hand face up on the turn. Once you check and he bets its fold imo. I would rather bet and try take him off QQ or maybe even the nut flush draw. He may not have K here and be floating. Id rather bet fold or bet check river. Even if we check the river after 2 barrels it still looks strong enough that he would worry we are trapping with a boat and might give up and we win the pot. It just seems harder to play if we check the turn. I would of just check folded. maybe its to nitty but I just feel hes gonna fire the river to often. Ok i just saw him pot the river. I would do the same as he did with your line.
17:45 you call pre vs a ss with K993 rr? Can you explain your reasoning? Galfond would fall out of his chair if he saw someone call from bb with a hand that bad.
at 20:48 I don't understand your raise. We still have some decent equity we can turn with this hand. I dont think hes folding this flop if he has any over pair with any equity. And we are gonna be op on the turn with marginal drawing hand. You said your happy getting this hand in. I would not be. If he has set or flush draw to go with any made hand we are behind. If i had pair of 2s or 5s I could see more merit in making a move. But 8s is a little better and if we turn Q or 9 we have top 2 pair which is not bad. Maybe i am wrong on it but I think its easier to play if we just call instead of bloating the pot. So your barreling the K i don't thinks folding the turn with a club draw here and a pair unless you bet close to pot. ya 13/18 to small. I think he will go to the river with flush draw or even shove over your bet. I agree he should of repopped the flop or made move on the turn he played his hand way to passively It worked out for you but Id rather do it with medium or bottom pair type hand so if i am reraised on the flop I wont have to jam.
at 30:00 you don't bet your flush on the turn... When he bets the flop and checks the turn I think we need to get value against 2 pair, sets, even maybe some pair with a straight draw and also a possible straight. I would bet like maybe 1/2 pot here. But I would not want to give him a free card and let him realize his equity if he does 2 pair or set kind of hand. Can you explain why you would check this turn? Our hand still very vulnerable here to a lot of river cards. I think its good spot to protect your hand. And if we raises we find out our flush is probably no good on the turn instead of guessing on the river. I understand the deceptive part your taking but still a lot of value hands he will be calling with on this some what connectec turn. I am still learning PLO sorry for all the questioning it just seems very odd with the lines your taking.
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