2-7 Triple Draw (part 3)
Posted by Stephen Chidwick
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While playing shorthanded, in the last 2 videos you haven't justified
many decisions if any with ICM considerations. Is the concept irrelevant
in limit games?
Hey sharp, good question.
In this tournament specifically the ICM considerations are negligible because everyone has so many bets and there is zero risk of getting all in during one hand. In worse structured tournaments where playing a hand through to the last draw will cost you a large portion or all of your stack ICM comes into play much more and you should pass up on playing some marginal hands.
21:00 when you hit the 87532 and opt to freeze. I think this spot you shouldn't freeze because given he went 2 to pat he shouldn't be smooth enough to call and break to draw out vs most of your value range. Likewise, given he is aware most of his range is marginal and rough there he can call the raise staying pat hoping you are semi bluff raising a 1card draw. Thoughts?
Hey Zach, thanks for the question, you make a good point. I think a lot of the reason I froze was because I was expecting to be behind so much and I wasn't sure if I would call a river bet (obviously not a good reason), because if I am going to call a river bet I will lose 2 bets when I am beat regardless and the question becomes which line gets more value when I am ahead. For the reasons you stated I think he is more likely to hero fold a 9 if I freeze and then bet the end than if I raise right away and he likely won't have much to break to both because he went 2 to pat and because he didn't 3b pre flop, further roughening his range.
Also the next hand, when you have 872xx in SB. I'm not really arguing that I think its a call PF, I'm not confident of what PF ranges you should be playing. And I get the postflop playability issues. Instead I'd just comment that we are folding a very high freq in SB if we are folding this solely based on a placement in range criteria. How often are you dealt better than 872 PF? It might be that in 2-7TD, one of the most positonally dependent games played, allowing Btn to auto-profit with an open is optimal. This topic is right in line with a thread I just posted.
http://www.runitonce.com/plo/why-are-we-concerned-with-minimum-defens/
Yeah I am also unsure of exact preflop ranges...I did do some math a while ago to figure out starting hand strength frequencies for single draw but I couldn't tell you what percentile 872 is in for td. We are certainly folding a lot in the sb but I think this is correct when bb is so loose and aggro and yeah button will probably be auto-profitting if we are folding hands of this strength but we wouldn't be folding this hand if we had ever seen villain opening drawing 4 or 5 or drawing 3 without a deuce so I think the point is kinda redundant.
Thanks Steve, Looks like we agree flatting turn for freeze benefits isn't really the reasoning. The lines are close though because if we raise turn for value we should also be value betting river if we deem to be ahead of his calling range. If we are beat we lose 3 bets though. Its close. Overall if lines are close I prefer the line where I can be bluffing because I can get called lighter. By flatting turn we are almost never snowing when we pat behind.
Well freeze benefits are a factor but I think they are outweighed by the other stuff mentioned.
"if we raise turn for value we should also be value betting river" - I don't agree with this. Our raise isn't really to get value from a range we beat, it is designed to maximise his call frequency from the portion of his range we are ahead of while not losing anything additional to the portion that beats us. As mentioned in the video I don't think we are ahead very often with our hand. Agree with the rest of your points though and I do prefer raising in hindsight.
I really liked this series, and would like to see more of mixed game content in future! Your 5 Card PLO/8 videos were very good too.
more 2-7!
Where are the first 2 parts?
http://www.runitonce.com/pro-training/videos/2-7-triple-draw-part-2/
http://www.runitonce.com/pro-training/videos/t-rex-162-review-part-3/
id like more parts
me too
Great series. More non-nlhe from you would be awesome.
I also vote +1 for more mixed games and especially 2-7 or plo8 content :)
Nice videos, i have learned a lot. I hope you will continue.
Just joined site and these 3 triple draws were first thing I watched. Terrific!
hi really great video, love your T series! Sharp analysis! would love to see more!
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