$10k Pineapple OFC World Championship (Part 2)
Posted by Jen Shahade
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Well done Jenn...you really kept your cool under the HU pressure. Sure you did get good sets but you still had to figure out the best strategy and think about deal making at the same time. And he had a big supportive and probably vocal rail. So glad everything worked out for you! np
Thanks! I think I had him outkicked on the virtual rail :)
You do realize I've been waiting a long time for your OFC vids
Thanks! Look forward to your questions/thoughts.
Jen,
I always enjoy your videos, but for me they're kind of too advanced because I don't play OFC competitively. My guess is that's true of quite a lot of other viewers as well.
My wishlist would be for a few videos on relatively basic strategy that focuses on cutting out the worst EV mistakes that players like me routinely make. And any kind of heuristics that I can use to generally make reasonable decisions in common spots. I feel like I might find myself in a mixed game sometime where I just have to play OFC and I'd like to sharpen up my game a little bit both HU and 3H, but I don't anticipate playing it in enough that I need to devote lots of study hours to it.
Ben
Thanks! Love that idea- developing OFC heuristics is my favorite part of working on the game. Chinese games can be played with a clock (i.e- HU with one minute per hand/per player or else you foul) in which case heuristics become important even for late game tactics that can usually just be calculated.
Will get to this right after my 10-part series on when to foul quads :)
GG once again Jen, love your vids, love when you say your "right" :D
6:40 - You say that he has about a 30% chance of making a flush here, I have it at 44%. What is the right answer?
30% seems right. He's got six diamonds left, needs two of them and he has two draws left- is it possible that you're looking at a data point for three draws left and six outs? I went over combinatorics and draws in which you need two cards (as opposed to one card direct draws) in my three-handed video if you want to figure out how this type of math is derived.
I think I know what data point you may be looking at! Are you trying to calculate a "simul draw"? A simul draw would be something like, "What are my chances of hitting one of my six live diamonds, AND one of five live aces/kings" The answer in this case would be 44. However, the chances of hitting TWO of six live diamonds is lower than that. This is not a "simul draw" but a "two card direct draw" and they are not interchangable.
Hope this helps! GL!
Hand 2 - what do you think about Qs4s/87/A ?
Didn't you see how my set turned out?! Be a little more results oriented please.
Seriously, your set is reasonable- I'm all about two flushes. But the Q/A4/87 is so harmonious. I'd like your idea a bit more if I didn't also have the wheel card to go with the ace.
Thank god Ms Shahade for finally putting a video up
FAQ
Issue: Putting the Ace in the middle
Suppose we have TT9AQ, and play it in a standard way putting 9TT in the back, Ace in the middle, and Q on top. Opponent 1 has a similar starting hand, 77JAK, and sets it as same.
2 aces remain.
1st draw: we get 55J. Obviously we would choose the 55. Where would we put them knowing there are 2 Aces remaining?
Why I am asking:
Unless I improve to trips in the back with my starting pair, I am unsure of when to pair the middle with the smaller kickers I have put there with my Ace. Obviously the more live the Ace is we should put those fives in the back. I often face a situation where I have paired the middle with the kicker and then on a later street get the Ace and so I have wasted other spots/cards. Now I don't know what to do with the Ace.
withmytoe,
If you put the 55 in the middle, you kind of cap yourself at not getting into fantasy. (Or at least you are making the fantasy possibility much, much, more difficult.) Plus, as you mentioned, now when you get an Ace, it just sucks.
I think a better way is to put a 5 in the middle and the J up top. You are not capped and your hand becomes much easier to play.
QJ
A5
TT9
Trondeez's idea is valid because you have a jack which has good consolation value and we can draw to a wheel in the middle sometimes (yes I am very optimistic!)
And with 3 kings live, you can use them to build up your middle too. However I wouldn't use this idea as a heuristic, this question is usually about specifics, which is probably why you have problems with the spot.
For instance if you do elect to put the fives in the middle, note you're still going to make trip tens over 40%. So yes, occasionally it sucks because you get a 9 and an ace, but lots of good things can happen too.
I def wouldn't lock up the bottom on the 2nd draw with all your boat cards live though. You are still around 1/3 to boat or quad up. Way too early to punt that.
After talking to some Russian guys, it seems that there has been a huge misunderstanding. As far as I understood you agreed on playing X amount of hands, and whoever has the highest amount of chips after these X hands is the winner, however the hand is completed only if noone has fantasy land.
Ilya gets to fantasy land and he does not get to play it? How is this possible? In the online client it is the same, as far as fantasy lands go it remains as the same hand.
I know/have played with Ilya and would love some clarification on this matter. They definitely treat it as being angled/ripped off at this point.
Offensive accusation considering this is all well-documented.
Ilya suggested to cap the number of hands at three. The tournament staff countered with four. I clarified that each hand would be distinct, so that a FL would count as a new hand (unlike in the tonybet client). The tournament staff agreed to this (which is documented on the livestream), so that was the impression that I was playing under throughout the hands and why I assumed I'd won the title as soon as I hit trips in the final hand. There were two TDs, one translating in Russian, it's unfortunate if Ilya didn't get full clarity.
Ilya and his rail contested at the end.
When Ilya heard that the Tournament staff was going to go through the livestream footage to make a decision, he acquiesced to the loss rather than continue to contest it. The staff told me that I was the winner and Ilya shook my hand.
Thanks for clarifying, makes sense.
Good luck in the future.
As I understand it from the video he was the one that wanted to limit the remaining number of hands to be played. An agreement was reached and ratified with the tournament staff. He should have made sure that he understood it properly for these kinds of stakes. Obviously it was in Jenn's interest with the CL to limit the number of hands as much as possible.
After the tournament is finished it is unpleasant and mean spirited to suggest that things were not fair.
trondeez thank you for that idea!
Hello Jen, I enjoy your videos a lot.
Quick question - at how many points do you value FL (7.5 from one source I found) ?
Thanks! I think it's higher than 7.5 Heads-up (I still use 9 for my ABC games) but 7.5-8 may be a decent ballpark for three-handed.
Keep in mind if you're ever selling or buying a FL that it benefits the seller to sell it at face value. That's bc the non FL player goes to FL more than the FL player remains in FL and your value of FL should account for that.
your opening on the very first hand is a strategy mistake please don’t defend it anymore.
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