TPGK+2nd NFD+GS Facing C/R Turn HU

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TPGK+2nd NFD+GS Facing C/R Turn HU

Blinds: $0.10/$0.25 (2 Players) SB: $23.05
BB: $25.00 (Hero)
Preflop ($0.35) Hero is BB with 6 K Q 7
Hero raises to $0.75, SB calls $0.50
Flop ($1.50) Q 4 8
SB checks, Hero bets $1.05, SB calls $1.05
Turn ($3.60) Q 4 8 2
SB checks, Hero bets $2.90, SB raises to $12.06, Hero calls $9.16

It's on a 6max table just start, and we play HU since around 15 hands.
2nd time he C/R me on a turn but I didn't have any real information.

-1st: I 2nd barrel du to spade is sound good or could we check back ?

-2nd : Concerning calling the check raise we need 33% equity :

I didn't expect a check from him river so objective is to call on 5,k and spade.
Is this line seems ok ?

7 Comments

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devwil 6 years, 6 months ago

I don't focus on heads-up play so take my feedback with a grain of salt.

Preflop seems reasonable.

Flop, I don't think this is a 100% mandatory cbet, but I think we're called by worse enough for it to be reasonable, and we do need some protection when we're ahead.

Turn, I think you can be expect to be pushing an equity edge often enough to keep firing. When villain fires back, it's pretty annoying though, as we can be in rough shape. This could be 88 or AsQ:ss, but I think your plan sounds good re: rivers to call. I might also call on a 7, as we block 56... but not 53, and villain could easily be taking this line with A53[Q,8] with a suited queen or ace with spades... and speaking of: I think that—heads-up—villain will be semibluffing a queen-high spade draw often enough that we can probably profitably draw to our flush draw... for this reason, I think your PPT villain range is actually slightly too strong as you're only giving them credit for nut flush draws. I give them a range of ([Q,8,4,2][Q,8,4,2], As53:ss, Qs53:ss, Qs[8,4,2]:ss) and even that is probably a little too generous to them, but it gives us 42.57% equity on the turn, so we really can't fold, obviously.

The river is going to be really tough, though, as there are a lot of cards where we are liable to be folding the best hand, if villain is betting river wide enough to include bluffs.

If we're calling 2 non-spade 7s, 3 kings, 2 non-spade 5s, and 7 spades that don't pair the board, that's just under 32% of the deck (if I didn't make pre-coffee math errors), putting us in an uncomfortable spot 68% of the time, if villain bets. (If villain checks, I'm inclined to check back a lot of the time unless we river the nuts, though this is probably too tight!) I'm not sure how to solve this problem, but I figured I'd present it.

plolearnerguy 6 years, 6 months ago

getting 2:1 and having only 10 outs I prefer a turn fold

devwil 6 years, 6 months ago

Heads-up against an unknown player that just seems incredibly tight to me and I strongly disagree.

Even against an arguably overly strong value/semibluff range (which assumes no unexpected bluffs or weird spew, neither of which can be ruled out), Gorak and I have shown we have ~38%-43% equity. Folding to 2:1 in this heads-up spot just seems like throwing money away, even if we may underrealize our equity on the river as villain can probably successfully bluff a lot of cards. (I feel like this may be an argument for shoving this turn, tbh. Villain only needs to have a handful of folds/spew for it to be profitable. On this turn, I feel like I'd rather potentially make a relatively small pot equity mistake and gain information on villain's play than fold the best hand on the river.)

This spot really depends on the math of how we do against their entire range, and saying we only have 10 outs to win is just not going to be accurate often enough to be the sole heuristic here. If we're going to be playing so tight to say that we only have 10 outs to win this pot, I feel like we might as well say we only have four outs: As and any non-spade 5.

But that's just too tight!

Realistically, villain can have a lot of different holdings here that we have a wide range of equity against.

There are only a few hands that dominate us in every way, and when we're not up against those, we often have either the right price or a really significant equity edge! This is why we have to look at our equity versus their range, and—when Gorak and I have done so—folding seems extremely unappealing given the odds overall.

Furthermore, we're really only in horrible shape against a range of As*s:(QQ, Q8, 88, 44, 22, AQ), and that doesn't weigh heavily enough in villain's range to make me assume that it's what we need to worry about. Also, combinatorically (using PPT's Count with relevant ranges), we dominate villain far more often than they dominate us. So even if they're value raising the turn, they're value-eviscerating themselves pretty often.

So, without a read and knowing that a random player at PLO25 can value-eviscerate themselves easily (especially HU), I just can't fold this turn and I think it would be a really big mistake to fold.

And having thought about it more, I think I just GII on the turn. There's enough value in seeing their hand or seeing them fold that I don't think we're making a big mistake by shoving turn (and we're going to be GII as a favorite often enough that it's sometimes a good value play, of course).

Even against As*s:(QQ, Q8, 88, 44, 22, AQ) (again, worst case scenario), we have about 21% equity. In that specific scenario, if I'm not mistaken we're paying like 20bb for really valuable information. That's not great in isolation, but if we're going to be playing with this opponent (especially HU) for any significant amount of time, that investment can pay off really well compared to being in the dark about what they check-raised this turn with (which we won't learn if we fold and may not learn if we call). (And again again, this is worst case scenario.)

leadnuts 6 years, 5 months ago

preflop and flop seem std. turn sizing is a little large given our actual hand. you could bet smaller here, I mean you size for a value bet but don't really have a value hand. if villain has AQ83 with nut spades we are crushed. you say hes been aggressive on turn so did you bet hoping to get raised? I mean your range is going to have sets, 2 pairs, 3 card gutters ( JT9x,567x) which I would much rather be betting this sizing with on this turn vs our actual hand. Our actual hand has good showdown value with some solid blockers vs drawing hands (6,7,spades) Im not saying check turn, im just saying I would size down a little. like 1.80 on the turn makes his PSR about 9 I believe. equity is still the same (33% req.) but pot on river will be 21ish with 15 behind vs. 27 with 11 behind. if your plan is to only call K,5,spade then I would think saving money for the times you have to fold would be more optimal as the pot is going to be big enough that hes going to shove regardless of whether he has 15 or 11. I could be wrong though lol

Gorak 6 years, 5 months ago

Hi leadnuts,
Thank you about your comment, well I'm still a newbee and know that I have to work a lot about sizing, go point of view and explanation !

Gorak

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