Tough spot with bottom two in 3b pot.

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Tough spot with bottom two in 3b pot.

HJ: UTG: 239.35
CO: CO: 35.28
BN: BTN: 415.22
SB: Hero: 308.81
BB: BB: 640.66
Hi guys!

This is my first post here on the forum. I played a very interesting hand recently while 2 tabling @ Svenska Spel 50/100 kr which is basically 7,5/15 $ blinds.

Note that the stack sizes are very deep in this hand.
Preflop (1.50) (5 Players)
Hero was dealt A 4 K 5
UTG folds, CO raises to 2.88, BTN folds, Hero raises to 9.63, BB calls 8.63, CO calls 6.75
Given that the cutoff was very short, I think this a standard 3bet, not going to go too in depth about this.
The big blind is a pretty loose aggressive player winning reg.
Flop (29.39) 4 5 J (3 Players)
Hero bets 21.66, BB raises to 93.84, CO folds, Hero calls 72.19
The flop is very interesting, I decided to go ahead and bet out thinking mostly that this is towards top of my range and want to get value.

I get very suprised when the Big Blind repots it here. At first I dont think I can bet fold this(.....?)
without being totally expolited.

I dont put the big blind on a HUGELY wide cold calling range pre here, although im not extremely condifent in that particular read due to stack sizes.

My read here was that be was basically repping topset, and some possible wraps, neither hands i really want to 3bet get it in against on the flop. So having mostly balance in mind I decided to call ( which I think now after is kinda bad )
Turn (217.08) 9 (2 Players)
Hero checks, BB bets 216.56, Hero folds
Turn is a 9 of diamond and I fold feeling really bad about my play.

What do you guys think?
Should we always be checking calling here on the flop ?
Should we always fold when being raised on the flop?
Or can we peel and get it in on some turns? (we have a few pretty good turns here for our hand but not alot)

Really would like som help on this hand!
Final Pot
BB wins 216.41


5 Comments

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jimmyhat1000 10 years, 7 months ago

Folding the flop to his raise may "feel" bad but I don't think bb will be raising light here often enough for us to continue for a few reasons.

1) The CO is likely to call off the remainder of his stack pretty with pretty much any piece of the board which makes it less likely the bb is bluffing.

2) Our hand plays pretty poorly over future streets. We improve on 4, 5, A, K and hearts but against his value range we don't often improve to a hand that is best, we have some serious reverse implied odds problems.

3) Even against the hands we are ahead of, say 678, and if you get really light say Jxxx we aren't that far ahead, he's still going to have 30-40% equity and put us in tough situation on later streets.

I guess what I'm saying / thinking is that with this hand there aren't many scenarios where things go well for us on turns and rivers so I think I'd just fold the flop. You could also consider betting smaller on the flop so the betting remains open if the CO jams.


Nikopolidis 10 years, 7 months ago

Yea I totally agree with raise folding.

We are just in a too terrible spot being OOP and doing very bad against his range and bad playability.

Therefore I think c/c is superior option av thinking about it for a while now. Do you agree?

If we check call this hand along with some JT98 combos and some overpairs, we are quite hard to exploit? 

Betting I think sets us up for being outplayed basically very easily. Do you agree in checking is the best option?

I dont like folding so bet folding goes against my instinct :D


Alien Slayer 10 years, 7 months ago

I would still rather b/f then c/c because you generate foldequity and don't cap your range. 
If you start c/c you will build a big pot with a bluffcatcher OOP and poor visibility (what would be your plan, calldown on any boardtexture? call 1/2 and always fold the river unimproved?) .

Nikopolidis 10 years, 7 months ago

I want to add, I think that hes cold calling range here is likely to be very wide, he is one of the toughest players at this level. Against a more average opponent or fish I think betting is by far best.

I just think against this particular opponent (loose-aggressive who likes to play deep) wouldnt we want to 

1)kind of pot control and keep pots small with our whole range on this board?

2)That way it stays uncapped, we play smaller pots on this very bad flop for our range?

3) Have a bit of deception when we do hit a 4 or 5/ and the villain decides to go crazy with JT98 type rundown with us so deep and try to blow us off our hand? Also possible that he just has a bare 4 or 5 with wraps / open enders thinking that our range leans towards AAxx KKxx and we are pretty face up, and that way we should win 2 big bets on later streets?

4) I dont think we have as much fold equity as we think when betting this board. And even against the hands we beat, we are pushing a very slim amount of equity/value right ? Im pretty confident that the villain even floats like bare QQxx with a backdoor here just to take it down later. 


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