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Top set deep OOP live

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Top set deep OOP live

5/10 PLO live

Several players limp, I check my big blind with JJ53ds.

Flop J76r

I check. I realize leading is a good option, but my gameplan massively multi-way oop with aggressive players behind is to usually start with a check.

Player A (1500) suspected weak tight pots for 60.

Player B (5k+) loose, tough calls.

Player C (5k+) splashy but intelligent and capable of reading hands, raises to 210 OTB.

I (5k) ?

In the hand I ended up raising and everyone folded, but I wasn't happy with my play. It just felt like I was turning my hand face up with too much money behind. Calling has the advantage of allowing the possibility that the shorter stack shoves and I end up getting all in with one of the deep stacks, which isn't especially likely, but is insanely good for me if it happens. It also gives me a bit of deception, although I don't exactly look weak cold calling. Agreed that flatting is a better play?

How do you play your ranges here? Do you have a flatting range and a raising range? What goes in each? Do I need to develop a leading range here?


7 Comments

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EdgeKing 10 years, 11 months ago

Flop leading doesn't have much merit imo since you block most top2 combos which might raise you and this hand doesn't play that fun 5way OTT bis a biggish SPR and a bunch of cards bringing in straights or making the board even more dynamic.

As played, live it also depends a bunch on your table image and how the people perceive you if you repot it here, also comparatively to calling. If you have a laggy image and people are somewhat paying attention I would go over the top and hope they go with J986 or even JT98 which you have really decent equity against (~75% and 60% respectively).


Overall I see merits in calling, first for the reason you mentioned that one of the shortstacks might decide to go with his hand, the guy who pots might go over the top with an underset while not being really happy with 66** facing that action, and also turns don't play thaaaat awful given that you have at least 1 bdfd and the idiotgutter and you won't have to fold pretty much any turns given that live your implieds on the river  if you hit your boat are going to be quite good. 


By c/potting turn you will be able to charge/protect against the draws and also to get the biggest chunk of your stack in, if not your entire stack ,depending on action as it is.


ilovetiger 10 years, 11 months ago

I think the big value we get from this hand is pushing our equity edge OTF and forcing 2nd and 3rd best hands to put a lot of money in....calling is nice in terms of deception but there's a fair amount of turns that freeze the action or put us behind in the hand...I think you should have a leading range multiway but I don't think this hand would be in it.

John Beauprez 10 years, 11 months ago

For each hand there is not a clear/ideal choice, but I think what you did is best, especially since we have a GS. 


As you mentioned it's unlikely one of the short stacks will decide to just stick it in when you cold call.. And if you just call the spr is pretty uncomfortable on many turns. At least by raising, we at least give ourselves the opportunity to get in stacks on clean turns. If we cold call, we will almost certainly not play for stacks on clean turns. 

John Beauprez 10 years, 11 months ago

Besides, people play bad, and might decide to just sigh and stick it in with a lower set anyway. If you cold/call, you not only allow other hands to realize equity but you diminish the odds that you realize the holy grail of deep stacked PLO: getting it in set over set

Dee Jenn 10 years, 11 months ago

Calling makes the most sense to me. Your opponents sound decent, and decent players aren't giving a reraise the action you want with middle or bottom set on this flop in an unraised pot. Great draws will be delighted if you cold 3bet with 5k effective stacks, since taking this action will turn your hand faceup in most people's minds as the hand you have. 

Given the small raise (to 210), the BTN seems to have a plan for this hand that involves building the pot without allowing the bettor to get more than half of his 1500 in. I think it's pretty clear he'll have a big draw almost always, given your hand and the fact that he's raising a weak-tight player's bet.

Coldcalling looks strong, but since no one's ever bluff-raising here, it keeps your range wider than reraising. If you call the 210, to a weak-tight guy especially, your hand must look more like a good draw than top set. By calling, you may destroy the BTN's plan, allowing the bettor to make it 920-ish if he wants to. With a hands like JT97, JT87, J987, or 7789, you couldn't really blame him for that.

If the BTN has a wrap and you repot the flop, he can call the 700, and the 1500 on a brick turn, so you end up on the river with 4500 in the pot and 2800 behind--I just threw up a little in my mouth.





DirtyD 10 years, 11 months ago

So it seems like people are kind of evenly split between flatting and raising...not suprising, I suppose, since there are often multiple good ways to play our best hands, and it's often good to mix it up. Guys who like raising - what other hands besides top set would you raise here, if any?

Sauce123 10 years, 11 months ago
I think you just raise flop with T98+, and 77+OE and JJ, I guess J798 might be an OK raise too.  If you think any T98 is too thin, then go with T98+backup.

You call with sets+gutter or midset or J7 with backup, or you can just fold those too if you want.  You definitely call or raise with T98.


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