Squeezing more than 3-betting HU - is it possible?
Posted by JNandez87
Posted by
JNandez87
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High Stakes
Squeezing more than 3-betting HU - is it possible?
Hey guys can I get your opinion on an idea here: Is it possible that our squeezing range vs. 2 players could be wider than our 3betting range vs. 1 opponent?
Example: CO opens, we are SB. Our HU 3betting range is let’s say 8% vs. his 30%
Now: CO opens, BU calls, we are now squeezing with 10%+
*all stack sizes are 100bb
Reasons it might be a good idea:
- one player has a capped range (BU), probably around minus 8%, so pretty weak range. We can extract more value here than vs. only one uncapped range.
- the SPR will get significantly lower 3way than HU, so we are going to realize more of it, which in return means we a more focussed on equity, which in return means 3betting a range that has a equity edge might be fine, which will be between 10-14%.
If would be nice if you could challenge my thought process here.
JN
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If it's actually correct to stop cc'ing from SB when BTN flats, then it makes sense that you could potentially squeeze more aggro, since your 3bet HU vs CO is more polarized (assuming you play a flatting range hu vs CO). That being said it feels like if it were true, it's probably just an indication that CO open range is too wide, or BTN flatting range is too weak.
I do have flatting ranges HU as well as 3-way in the SB here. Another thing to add is that, in PLO, there is almost no fold equity preflop.
That being sad, I don't think my squeezing range is more depolarized, it's just weaker because the wide and capped BU ranges allows me to widen the range profitable.
I figured out that vs. 30% opening range uncapped about 11.83% of hands have an edge (hot and cold).
Against a 30% opening range and a capped caller about 14.30% of hands have an edge 3-ways (hot and cold).
How do you rate that? My guess is that you're going to refer to the fact that BU cc range is too wide and weak?
I think the challenge here is that the hands that play well in multiway pots don't entirely overlap with hands that have good hot and cold equity. Specifically, there are a lot of weak AAxx hands that you (perhaps) don't want to squeeze in scenarios like this.
Now, if you widen your squeeze range with an emphasis on multiway playability without including those weak/marginal AAxx hands, the CO can now comfortably 4-bet to half of his stack with a good HU hot and cold equity range.
It's difficult to construct a range in these spots because it's in large part up to the CO whether you play a 3-way 3-bet pot or a HU 4-bet pot. When you squeeze you need to be prepared for both.
Thank you very much for the reply.
Do you think that some AAxx are loosing money when squeezing because they play bad in a SPR 1.85 3-way scenarios? I guess intuitively I think we are forced to get in the money very often, but will be an underdog, which sounds bad. Is this what you're refering to? If so, how far should the SPR drop to be squeezing bad AAxx in your opinion to make a squeeze the highest EV play? Obv asking for an estimation.
In comparison, what do you think about AKJT:ss type of hands in the same spot vs. AA93 with low suits? (less equity vs. more playiblity, I guess)
Conventional squeezing ranges are about 6% in this above given scenario, which goes in line with your comment and I'm pretty sure I agree, now, but would like to take the opportunity to pick your brain :)
Thanks
i think until co sees our "mutliway playability" hand at showdown it's a good spot to take since most of those hands will dominate btn's flatting range. he can't make the adjustment to 4b more hot and cold eq until he has that information without risking getting smoked by a strong range. admittedly we'll go to showdown very often in a situation like this, but still seems worth it until it happens. i also play only on an anonymous site, so i think about things like this a lot :)
excellent post jnandez, post more here!
One other point in favor would be if the "squeeze" part of the squeeze play ever works: that is, can you ever get CO to fold? But like you say this is pretty rare in PLO.
I think it is possible, and might be a good idea too depending on the situation. For two reasons:
a) This might be a bit counterintuitive (not to you JNandez but to some people), but we might have more FE when squeezing in MW pots than when we are just 3-betting against one opponent. Namely, the last-to-act guy shouldn't be folding much, but the guy in the middle should/could fold a bit because he's getting sandwiched. Also, SPR becomes lower and we can play certain hands more easily in a 3-bet pot.. although we shouldn't use this as an excuse to squeeze weak AAxx, because they just don't play very well.
b) Like you said, if CO opens and BTN just flats, his range is usually capped and we can pick on that. This is information we don't have when we play HU and our opponent open raises, because his range is uncapped. Accordingly, we can squeeze a bit wider.
But of course, there are reasons why this might not be a good idea, and Phil's post beats me to it so I won't repeat them!
-- midori
in reference to phil's counter argument about not wanting to include rly bad AA combos in your squeezing range....jnandez im wondering if your strategy here would be most effective at shorter stack depth (perhaps 40-60bb)? In one sense, the shorter depth addresses PSR concerns with playing bad multiway combos such as AAxx, but then again, i believe the shorter you are the less likely CO is to fold pre or on the flop, so any amount of assumed FE from him being sandwiched is at the very least dramtically decreased if not lost. Do you agree with any of the above and if so why or why not? Phil, would also love to hear your thoughts as well.
PSA: im not advocating shortstacking :)
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