QJT9ds, oop vs lags, flopping TP

Posted by

Posted by posted in Low Stakes

QJT9ds, oop vs lags, flopping TP

SB: $57.97 (Hero)
BB: $40
UTG: $50
HJ: $65.51
CO: $70.94
BN: $38.98
Preflop ($0.75) (6 Players)
Hero was dealt 9 T Q J
UTG raises to $1.75, HJ calls $1.75, CO folds, BN folds, Hero raises to $7.50, BB folds, UTG calls $5.75, HJ folds
Flop ($17.50) Q 7 5 (2 Players)
Hero bets $14.50

both villians are lag-ish regs, don't fold to 3b (like 7% or so). is it mandatory 3b? and flop there is not much merit in checking here, or we should include such mediocre hands in checking range?

10 Comments

Loading 10 Comments...

JimmyGlass 11 years, 3 months ago

mostly standard. agree. just wanted to as if any sense of ever calling this hand in given spot, and should we ever check this type of hands otf(seems like its not applicable hand to have in checking range here)

Suniram 11 years, 3 months ago

I def reraise pre vs 2 lags.

Flop I think is close SPR-wise. I can't imagine bet/gii being bad but I feel like there is merit in checking as well. 

- if it goes checked through its not that terrible since we have quite a few good turncards

- if utg bets and hj shoves I'd fold

- utg bets and hj calls its tough. We obv beat hj but utgs bet is v strong. Prolly fold. If its not potsized x/c and shove good turns might be good.

- if utg x and hj bets (1) non-committing I always shove b/c we have FE (2) bets pot I'd prolly still not fold b/c he has to assume he has FE and therefore might bet wider.


More stats would be good

arukidinme 11 years, 3 months ago

I don't think this is a mandatory 3b against a UTG range.  Some 40/30 lags play pretty tight OOP and from EP so I don't just always snap 3b this hand because I would rather play this hand 3w in a single raised pot than HU in a 4b pot vs UTG and < PSB.


As played I think checking is fine with this hand, we have a TPWK, and a BDFD on a wet board.  Really depends on how villain approaches our 3b range here.  If he is going to put us on a high balance of AA and KK hands than we can b/c and gii against worse one pair hands that he thinks he has good equity against our over pair hands.  Also if they are laggy they might take stabs with their air here thinking we have bare OP that will give up on later streets.  This is easy to balance with AdAxxd or AdQxxd.  Leading will rarely fold out pair and flush draw hands so I think that checking allows the hands in his range worse than ours a chance to play poorly.  A lot of turn will be easy to play if it checks through.   We can make a delayed cbet on any A-8, boar pairing card.  Even the wheel cards are not that scary because there will not be a high amount of 46, 48, 34, 68 type of card combos in a UTG range.


If we had any kind of draw on the flop I would maybe lean more to the cbet call.

braampje 11 years, 3 months ago

If your not 3betting this then what are you 3betting? just AA or nothing at all, both don't seem optimal to me. 


suniram we are HU here right?;)

JimmyGlass 11 years, 3 months ago

yeah, we're HU )

problem of sqzing this hand here is that 80%+ of the time we are OOP 3way in huge 3bpot. yes, our starter flops extremely good, but fd's wouldn't be nutted and it matters even in 3b pot (as it's 3way and they flop better fd often enough). AKKQss or KK77ss\ds look at least not worse for me in this spot.  could be completely wrong, though.

arukidinme 11 years, 3 months ago

My 3b range would likely be narrow here.  It would likely start with good AA,KK hands and AsK[Q-9][Q-9]ss/ds hands and expand from there depending on UTG PFR%.  But why do we need a high 3b% in this spot when facing a UTG open, HJ call.  Players have fold to 3b stats of around 7% (all which probably come from button steals and are never folding the strong hands they are opening from EP).  I was simply stating the fact that it's not an auto 3b pf for me.  If I am facing an open from UTG who has a VPIP/PFR of ~10% why would I 3b this hand when I expect to get 4b a high frequency of the time and know that I am realizing zero fold equity preflop.  Changing the post flop SPR will not change a lot of the boards and ranges that we can get stacks against and our hand will flop well and be able to play multiply streets.

FWIW I image this hand never gets HU here and I am not sure how HJ flats UTG open and then folds when faced with the option to close action 100bbs deep.  I would say when we 3b, 50% of the time we will get 4b (mostly from UTG since he can be on all AA hands and premium KK, and HJ could have flatted weaker AA or good KK which will have a great spot to squeeze) and the other 50% of the time we will be playing a multi way pot OOP with an SPR ~2 and some portion of the time HJ is not paying attention and folds.

Would be interested to know what the UTG open% is here.  I think that this really needs to be included when facing decisions because there are a lot of lags playing 35/30 who open any cards on the button but 10% from EP.

arukidinme 11 years, 3 months ago

~30% open UTG is a pretty big leak (might be off base here  that we can take advantage of and 3b wide (this hand and many high card hands).  Guy is probably not very positionally aware and if he folds that little to 3bs you really need to try and get seats in position on him.  Wait for seat, 3b/cb all day in position and print money till he adjusts.  30% probably includes a lot of disconnected hands, bad pair type hands Qs882s and such.

Be the first to add a comment

Runitonce.com uses cookies to give you the best experience. Learn more about our Cookie Policy