PLO60 River Spot

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PLO60 River Spot

Seat 3 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( $421.48 USD ) - VPIP: 79, PFR: 13, 3B: 5, AF: 1,0, Hands: 298
Seat 2: Player2 ( $341.59 USD ) - VPIP: 47, PFR: 14, 3B: 17, AF: 1,9, Hands: 129
Seat 3: Player3 ( $1065.04 USD ) - VPIP: 51, PFR: 33, 3B: 18, AF: 2,6, Hands: 692
Seat 4: Player4 ( $1518.56 USD ) - VPIP: 25, PFR: 18, 3B: 8, AF: 4,1, Hands: 484
Seat 5: Hero ( $721.41 USD )
Player4 posts small blind [$2.00 USD].
Hero posts big blind [$4.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ 8s Kh Ks 9d ]
Player1 calls [$4.00 USD]
Player2 calls [$4.00 USD]
Player3 folds
Player4 folds
Hero raises [$14.00 USD]
Player1 calls [$14.00 USD]
Player2 calls [$14.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3s, Jd, 6s ]
Hero bets [$44.00 USD]
Player1 calls [$44.00 USD]
Player2 calls [$44.00 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Td ]
Hero bets [$168.00 USD]
Player1 calls [$168.00 USD]
Player2 folds
** Dealing River ** [ Ad ]
Hero ??

Loose/passive fish who plays alot of hands preflop. No reads about his postflop game. What do we do on river?

4 Comments

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Misha Savinov 12 years, 1 month ago
He rarely has AA, KQ, AJ, JT on the river and shouldn't value bet two pair hands anyway. Fish may or may not fold a pair of aces to a river bet, and this is not a huge fraction of his range, so I don't like bluffing. (May be wrong about the number of bare A combinations though.) After we check he should bet flushes and some air, so I guess check call is in order.
Tom Coldwell 12 years, 1 month ago
I wouldn't have bet quite as large on the flop or turn (100% because, for style reasons, I avoid using the pot button wherever possible). More seriously though, given I would certainly have bet big on both, how we play the river is interesting. We have four options as I see it (although two look similar):

1) Give up.
2) Induce a bluff.
3) Value-bet.
4) Bluff.

Personally, I choose option 1) when I'm thinking clearly (against a loose/passive fish). To understand why, I will rule out the other options as giving up is rarely a preference one comes to by deciding it has value, but more by deciding everything else sucks.

2) Inducing a bluff is pretty easy to rule out because villain is a passive fish. He won't bluff nearly wide enough to make calling profitable and therefore, should we check, folding becomes somewhat trivial imo. Obviously you don't have a great read, but with an inkling that villain is passive, we have to go on that and fold to anything but the tiniest of bets (and even then, it's probably a fold).

3) Value-betting seems damned difficult with a hand which doesn't beat top pair. Whilst it's very possible we were ahead on the turn, and indeed remain so on the river, it's hard to find many worse hands which will call. Even loose/passive villains don't tend to call rivers w/ second pair or worse, so I struggle to see what we're hoping to push him off.

4) Bluffing has merit and is certainly the option I'm most interested in considering. However, I am concerned that villain is loose and I therefore suspect will call with a lot of the hands we would be targeting (two pairs). The problem is, a passive villain has a wider range of medium-strength made hands here which he is just stationing down, including most two pairs and some sets. That is bad news for us because it means we can expect far more calls than from a more TAG opponent. There is certainly a chance he'll fold these, but I have personally fired so many third barrels in my life in these spots and gotten snapped by mediocre hands that I feel it's an error. It's almost like he assumes you only value-bet the flush and can't have made a backdoor flush very often so must be bluffing (although equally, he could be thinking, "I have two pair, I call"). I don't hate a bluff, but I don't think it's ideal against a suspected station. Realistically, the majority of the folds you will get (which you don't already beat) are from the naked nut spade draw which made top pair, but that doesn't make up a huge portion of his range so I wouldn't worry too much.

So yeah, after considering our options and the fact that I don't expect villain to do too much folding or bluffing, I would just check and hope to show down here. It feels crap because it's never fun to just check/give up, but in this instance, I feel it's probably for the best.
ZenFish 12 years, 1 month ago
Good post, 5carab. Bluffing very-loose-and-bad players off two pair is only worth doing because it feels good to stop. He could have stumbled into top pair and fold that, but then again he might not. Worth noting that Villain's flop/turn calls with a player behind should make his range somewhat stronger than in a HU pot.

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