U are from SB right? General, my SB play is more tight than BB play.
I never squeeze this combo from SB, and never squeeze from BB (from BB is a super easy call). From SB the problem is when happen what happen to you: the bb squeeze, and we have to play a big pot, OOP with a J suited hand (ok, with nice connection).
So my personal play from SB for this combo depend of BB: if BB is a passive fish, i can easy call; if i know that BB can squeeze a lot, i easy fold (repeat, playing tight from SB is a nice idea)

Don't think we can profitably call a 4bet here 100bb deep if they are only 4betting aces

I would squeeze this more often than not since a CO open and BTN flat are not strong ranges that I would be worried about being behind. If it was an UTG or MP open and then a flat, I would just call.

As Potlimitlife worked out this hand can call a 4bet BB profitably, so I would almost always squeeze here (vs Co and BTN) regardless of how active BB was, because I would prefer them to be cold 4betting loosely anyways.

I can only think of one better hand than ours that BTN would flat vs. a CO open instead of 3bet and that would be something like AKQ8s, so we are still very likely to be ahead. Those 1 dimensional suited Ace high flush draw hands are exactly the type of hands we want to squeeze and not let them see a flop cheaply... they also don't hit that often, making us more money when they call our squeeze and fold on a missed flop.

Against 4bet of AAxx this hand is definitely +EV to call. Basically any hand that doesn't have a pair or an Ace is +EV to call against AAxx, no matter what the stack sizes are.

Please explain that flop shove. You jam right into aces most of the time. And you only got 1 gutter and bd fd., so maybe 3-5 outs.

You have 33% with your wrap and bdfd vs AAxx with a bdfd and you only need 30% here, if he also has a club draw too then you are only 23%.

Potlimitlife, what is "wrong" with the thought that our hand is ahead of BTN or that it is not worth a squeeze vs a CO and BTN range? Unless BTN has weak KKxx (which we block) we are even 42% against weak AAxx pre flop and many players 3-bet weak AAxx and KKxx BTN vs CO too, making it even less likely they are in BTNs range.

I'm not saying it is a snap squeeze everytime (depends on CO and BTN opening and 3bet ranges), but if you're not squeezing this hand for value here vs Co and BTN, when and with what are you squeezing with? This bottom 2 gapper flops 16 nut outs when it flops a straight draw and you have a Jhs (not great, but relevant and better in a low SPR pot).

I am genuinely asking these questions to get better at this spot, not because I think I am right. Also I should have said AKQ8s is the only hand we are crushed by preflop that might have flatted on BTN vs CO, we technically are behind AAxx, but it's somewhat likely its 3betted BTN vs CO and we are very live against it anyways.

Well equity wise, even TJQKs is an underdog to a 35% opening range pre flop (if that was COs opening range for example), but would you not 3bet that (for value) either?

If you want any preflop equity at all vs. a 35% CO open, that means the weakest hands you are 3betting here are hands like TJQK double suited, which is still only a 52% favorite.

Hitting a high % of flops and high card strength I think are more important in this spot and this hand hits nearly half the deck, any 8, 9, T, J, Q, K is a good card for our hand and even an A doesn't kill our hand if another Broadway card flops, or you choose to rep AAxx if they both just called preflop and likely don't have AA.

Again, it depends on BTNs 3bet range vs CO, but I would expect BTN to have hands that we do have equity against preflop, hands like TJQx with a low dangler, weak suited Ace hands and any pair like 77-TT (and lower) are all categories of hands we are ahead of preflop... not that preflop equity is more important here than high cards and board coverage on a high % of flops.

Not saying by any means it is a slam dunk 3bet without knowing the stats of CO and BTN, and maybe it is still less +EV than a call, I don't know how to figure that out, but that's why I am asking.

I'm torn because the situation you are describing with a good but not totally nutted hand is also a reason why you would 3bet, to bloat the pot while out of position and to lower the SPR and make it correct to stack off lighter with your good, but not totally nutted hands. This hand does also have 16 nut out wrap potential so its not completely a non-nut hand... I guess it's just a higher variance play and like you're saying if you are getting action you may be well behind.

So are you folding then? Because what happens if we flat and BB folds... now we're in a spot where we have to decide whether to check call in a small, but deep SPR pot OOP with a Jhfd on a 2spade flop, or top pair with a gutter for example on a different flop, which doesn't seem like a great strategy either because our range is capped and therefore hard to get a fold later or a check behind, we'd have to x/fold turns and it would be hard to win anything if we did hit OOP.

I can even see a case for folding pre flop I guess, but I can't intuitively get a feel for the right play, someone with a program that generates a huge number of flops and sees how much equity we typically flop against a 35% CO range and a BTN flatting range that doesn't 4bet is what I'd like to see and whether 3betting, flatting or folding is more +EV.

You make a good point about the top pair 2nd kicker though, because if we are forced to stack off in an SPR of 2 if we bloated the pot and cbet and get raised, that could be the deciding factor making the squeeze a bad play.

Btw, the 8 does help our straight draws a bit by adding the 7 as 4 more outs if a 9 and T are on the board.

I don't think tat we are 3betting here "for value" as like we do in NLH. I think we 3bet low-mid wraps because we want to get in HU situations and because we flop well on most flops, we have easy decisions if we spike on anything on flop.

I had a look in Odds Oracle. I tried to search for a reason why we 3bet postflop ("for value")

If you enter KQJT:xx in Range Explorer and look for Nut Hi Hands you will get following results:

~4% Nut Hi On Flop
~9,4% Nut Hi On Turn
~11% Nut Hi On River

For AAKK:xxyy its:

~19% Nut Hi On Flop
~14% Nut Hi On Turn
~9,3% Nut Hi On River

so for KQJ8:xx we get:

~2,6% Nut Hi On Flop
~6,1% Nut Hi On Turn
~7,3% Nut Hi On River

Just FYI. I also wanted to know how many times I flop a hand in a 3bet pot where I can easily broke, for example pair+min 8outs to straight or better. I do not claim to have made highly precise calculations, just some rough estimations through excel sheets. My results were that with AAKK:xxyy we flop very well over 50% of all flops, and on 0gapped rundowns or double suited 1gapped rundowns this is also the case.

KQJ8:xx flops only about 30% of times as well. Because of this and because of playing probably not HU OOP I won't 3bet this hand anymore as of today.
But I would 3bet isolate IP preflop.
I can recommend you to get Odds Oracle and take some time to calculate your way through some hand types and think about what you want to flop in 3way pot and how many times you will face those sort of flops.

There are probably more reasons to 3bet rther then how often we flop some specific situation but since equitywise we cant really decide wether to 3bet or not, I think it is a good way to sort all those different types of playing styles preflop. For myself, if I know that in 2 of 3 times I found myself in a tricky spot first to act, I can't see a reason to 3bet preflop. I hate putting myself into tricky spots

Thanks plorious! I will look into Odds Oracle and see if I can work it out. Great analysis... So it sounds like in order to make 8JQKs a hand worth 3 betting pre flop HU OOP you would need to be able to create an SPR of 1 basically, so that we have 33% equity on a flop bet and you have roughly worked out that on 30% of flops we have an easy go broke decision.

3way I know we can either gain or lose considerable equity depending on what our opponents are holding, like you said I can try to figure out how to use Odds Oracle to see what our hands equity would be worth 3way vs. a CO bet/call and BTN call/call range if we do squeeze in this scenario and I wonder how shallow it has to be to make sense.

You shouldn't look forward to create spr1 spots with KQJ8ss because generally if stacks are 100bb you are looking for a 4bet pot then.

When I figured out how many times a hand flops certain situations I thought about the following:

• I always xbet AAKKds, no matter how many villains left, no matter about position
• I would do the same with hands that flops as good as the above
• if hands look good but don't flop nice spots as often as the top hands, start thinking about HU/Multiway scenarios, IP/OOP, what to do when get 4bet