I have this problem. I play 05/10c and some 10/25c zoom and i like to barrel oop, but playing against fields of 200 unknowns makes hand reading really tough, fish call call call with everything, be it top set nut straight or overcards, and barreling light on turn with the intention of firing river seems pretty risky since every card in the deck can hit them, what's the solution? I would like to feed my urge for emptying clips and not spew too much while also playing a 33-ish vpip game :D
No one plays balanced at the mentioned stakes but some uncommon few, if ever.
At stakes especially 25 plo and below, you have to open with strong starting hands so you can beat these fish with better 2p, higher sets, higher straights and nutty flush or have dominating draws.
Personally, I'd stop playing zoom and focus on regular tables and learn to beat the calling stations and other various player types. Once you can beat them, then go back to zoom.
Personally, I'd rather improve and move up stakes gradually at regular tables. i rarely heard anyone say that they improved as a player my playing on zoom.
ofc they're balanced, sure they have more air and junk that is potentially bluffable like overpairs but since they call with every hand in a spot it means they are doing something with all hands so you can't read all that much into it, it's a kinda balancing in a terrible way. :)
I know exactly what you mean but I never found a way to put this problem into words.
I usually notice this when I´m value betting a little wider because I expect my opponents range to be capped because he just calls on certain board textures where he should raise his strong hands. And I end up value towning myself because he plays c/c,c/c,c/c with the stone cold nuts. But then again he takes the same line with absolute air. Even though this are bad plays I feel like it´s really hard to exploit.
As spassewr says, an easy way to beat it is to just bet with really strong hands. Your opponents' loose-passive strategy doesn't compel you to take aggressive lines with weak-marginal hands.
Dont bluff or barrel wide. Put thin vbets into ur cc or cf range. Play tight pre. What u described, these villains are almost certainly not balanced. Being super passive and playing all/most hands passively, albeit deceptive and def suboptimal its almost certainly not balanced (ppl good enough to be balanced wouldnt waste their time at these stakes, theyd go crush 5/10+).
I would suggest taking up a hobby like going to the gun range. You can satisfy ur urge for emptying the clip there...
JerryZRivii10 years, 5 months agoHow tight exactly would you suggest? vpip/pfr, everytime i try to play tight seems like nothing ever happens... It would be nice if you had some sample size at those stakes to confirm that is optimal or towards that :)
ive never played this stakes, had the luxury of being able to use my NL roll when i started PLO which allowed me to start a little higher. I dunno how much the games have changed and how this site plays but id guess that with solid post flop skills and not tilting,spewing or trying to be fancy more than once a month, something like a 22/18 or even tighter with a 3b of about 5 will crush the games.
but using these numbers as anything but a guideline would be silly, and im in no way implying that this is the optimal style.
in general tho, the looser u play....the more trouble you get into which requires edge, skill, focus and a clear mind.
you're saying contradictory things in the OP. If you can clarify what you mean by fish, and clarify what you think their leaks are, then people can probably give you decent advice on exploiting their weaknesses.
But players that play a very balanced range IP certainly aren't fish.
You got to learn between the lines, if someone calls every single hand every time with his whole range, isn't it defined as balance in some way?
themightyjim10 years, 5 months agono that is not necessarily balanced. it depends on range construction based on other factors like players in the hand, pot odds, bet sizes, previous street actions etc. You could just call every hand down on every street and you would have board coverage for your range on every possible run out, but you'd be a massively losing player because your range construction would be extremely weak in face of your opponents bets.
so just the fact that your opponent seems to not split their range (by mostly only calling IP) does not tell us what they are doing correctly or incorrectly. Thus we can't give you any valuable advice. If you provide an example or some details people might be able to help.
More importantly, your confusion as to this issue probably speaks to your own leaks in the game and suggests that you many not yet be a winning player in the games you're playing. Learning the flaws in your own questions and reasoning would help you make huge strides in your own analysis, both of your self and of your opponents.
It's important to have a solid theoretical understand of how you make money in poker before you start asking more specific questions about exploitation. I think it might be time to go back to the basics in your thought process.
I'm not talking about a bluff heavy range, I'm talking about having a range with any semibluffs at all except hands that you can bet call with, for eample you raise from highjack so you that we can have more JT in our range, he calls from btn flop comes JT3ss you cbet AJQ5 no fdraw turn comes an offsuit 2 you bet again river is like a 6 and you obv have to bluff, fish thinks you are polarized to nuts or nothing and snap calls with AK62, he also has 33 here or JT + flushdraw, that's what I'm talking about. And it should be wrong not betting since they call AK62 in the first place so you get value from all those draws but rivers get tricky.
I earn 2k a month; I want to spend 1k a month on partying and put 500 a month away for savings, while my rent and bills cost 800 a month.
That is basically what your last sentence says.
You highlight three desires in the last sentence of your post. These three things are incompatible at these stakes.
I am not trying to be rude or anything just saying it how I see it.
The question you want answered is not "How can I do all of the things I want?" First you have to answer what do you want most; win, barrel loads, play loads of hands, build a roll, gamble?
Then the question becomes what do you do to get that.
JerryZRivii
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No one plays balanced at the mentioned stakes but some uncommon few, if ever.
At stakes especially 25 plo and below, you have to open with strong starting hands so you can beat these fish with better 2p, higher sets, higher straights and nutty flush or have dominating draws.
Personally, I'd stop playing zoom and focus on regular tables and learn to beat the calling stations and other various player types. Once you can beat them, then go back to zoom.
Personally, I'd rather improve and move up stakes gradually at regular tables. i rarely heard anyone say that they improved as a player my playing on zoom.
ofc they're balanced, sure they have more air and junk that is potentially bluffable like overpairs but since they call with every hand in a spot it means they are doing something with all hands so you can't read all that much into it, it's a kinda balancing in a terrible way. :)
I know exactly what you mean but I never found a way to put this problem into words.
I usually notice this when I´m value betting a little wider because I expect my opponents range to be capped because he just calls on certain board textures where he should raise his strong hands. And I end up value towning myself because he plays c/c,c/c,c/c with the stone cold nuts. But then again he takes the same line with absolute air. Even though this are bad plays I feel like it´s really hard to exploit.
As spassewr says, an easy way to beat it is to just bet with really strong hands. Your opponents' loose-passive strategy doesn't compel you to take aggressive lines with weak-marginal hands.
Dont bluff or barrel wide. Put thin vbets into ur cc or cf range. Play tight pre. What u described, these villains are almost certainly not balanced. Being super passive and playing all/most hands passively, albeit deceptive and def suboptimal its almost certainly not balanced (ppl good enough to be balanced wouldnt waste their time at these stakes, theyd go crush 5/10+).
I would suggest taking up a hobby like going to the gun range. You can satisfy ur urge for emptying the clip there...
ive never played this stakes, had the luxury of being able to use my NL roll when i started PLO which allowed me to start a little higher. I dunno how much the games have changed and how this site plays but id guess that with solid post flop skills and not tilting,spewing or trying to be fancy more than once a month, something like a 22/18 or even tighter with a 3b of about 5 will crush the games.
but using these numbers as anything but a guideline would be silly, and im in no way implying that this is the optimal style.
in general tho, the looser u play....the more trouble you get into which requires edge, skill, focus and a clear mind.
you're saying contradictory things in the OP. If you can clarify what you mean by fish, and clarify what you think their leaks are, then people can probably give you decent advice on exploiting their weaknesses.
But players that play a very balanced range IP certainly aren't fish.
You got to learn between the lines, if someone calls every single hand every time with his whole range, isn't it defined as balance in some way?
so just the fact that your opponent seems to not split their range (by mostly only calling IP) does not tell us what they are doing correctly or incorrectly. Thus we can't give you any valuable advice. If you provide an example or some details people might be able to help.
More importantly, your confusion as to this issue probably speaks to your own leaks in the game and suggests that you many not yet be a winning player in the games you're playing. Learning the flaws in your own questions and reasoning would help you make huge strides in your own analysis, both of your self and of your opponents.
It's important to have a solid theoretical understand of how you make money in poker before you start asking more specific questions about exploitation. I think it might be time to go back to the basics in your thought process.
"I like to bloat pots with a bluff heavy range OOP against uncapped ranges."
I think it should be self evident why this strategy is going to be suboptimal...
I'm not talking about a bluff heavy range, I'm talking about having a range with any semibluffs at all except hands that you can bet call with, for eample you raise from highjack so you that we can have more JT in our range, he calls from btn flop comes JT3ss you cbet AJQ5 no fdraw turn comes an offsuit 2 you bet again river is like a 6 and you obv have to bluff, fish thinks you are polarized to nuts or nothing and snap calls with AK62, he also has 33 here or JT + flushdraw, that's what I'm talking about. And it should be wrong not betting since they call AK62 in the first place so you get value from all those draws but rivers get tricky.
I earn 2k a month; I want to spend 1k a month on partying and put 500 a
month away for savings, while my rent and bills cost 800 a month.
That is basically what your last sentence says.
You highlight three desires in the last sentence of your post. These three things are incompatible at these stakes.
I am not trying to be rude or anything just saying it how I see it.
The question you want answered is not "How can I do all of the things I want?" First you have to answer what do you want most; win, barrel loads, play loads of hands, build a roll, gamble?
Then the question becomes what do you do to get that.
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