Playing 2 pair in PLO
Posted by cAp217
Posted by
cAp217
posted in
Mid Stakes
Playing 2 pair in PLO
I ran into a hand this week where I was confused by why the villian played it. Nothing special here:
I have 89Tx with suited clubs and the flop is QcJcx and I have a gut SFD and a good wrap here. THere is $70 in the pot preflop and I check, villian bets $50 and 1 caller and I make it $250 with $300 behind. Villian calls and other guy folds. Turn is a blank and I shove and he calls my all in. I brick out and he wins with QJxx (no bd or connector cards or even a flush draw). I figure I am 70% in this hand but how does the villian value 2 pair so much? I would not want to bet call a psb with 2 pair and no draws but I see people doing this a lot.
What does he think is he ahead of to make this call?
Am I missing something?
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So unless he sees you as extremely nitty I think he should call IP and see a blank - as he did. Jamming on flop is also an option but ip better to see the turn and see what you do; could probably fold Ac and a few other cards if it comes and you jam.
As soon as you give villain a better FD, then he has at least 50% even with no pair no straight draw on the flop, for example http://propokertools.com/simulations/show?b=QcJc2d&g=oh&h1=8c9cTs3d&h2=Ac6c5h7d&s=generic. And it is actually not that hard for you to be completely dominated due to the non-nutty components of your draws (http://propokertools.com/simulations/show?b=QcJc2d&g=oh&h1=8c9cTs3d&h2=KcQdTc9h&s=generic).
So your play is mainly good for folding out those villain's hands, that have ~30-35% equity, but cannot stand a check raise, but you are never thrilled to actually get it in on the flop.
And as Nikolaj Borge already stated, it seems reasonable for villain to assume you XR the flop with a) a set or b) combo-draw. He has blockers to two of the more likely sets, so he leans heavily towards the combo draw.
But mainly I would stress, that you should really look at a range of hands he can have and the corresponding actions, not just the actual hand.
Obviously, a much better judgement on his play can be done if you know stack sizes, positions, history, etc.
You also didn't lead the flop on a very draw heavy board, so depending on the flow of your live game he may put you on massive draws instead of top or middle set. Half the deck makes top set difficult to play out of position on the turn, so check raising is odd live. I don't know who raised preflop or if it was a limped pot; that is important too. Also the fact that someone called his bet, THEN you raised might signal to him that some draw outs are being shared so his two pair hand might have even more equity vs a monster draw. Again, as others have stated, calling with top two pair in position in this spot is pretty standard. He then sees a brick turn and is willing to gamble getting fair odds while he thinks it's a pure flip or he's a slight favorite (due to dead draw outs in the other villain's hand).
Hope some of this helps, PLO can definitely be a complex game!
If I reverse the hand and I have top 2 on a draw heavy board I am not happy bet calling a shove. I guess I give too much credit thinking that 2 pair cant be good on these type of boards, especially w 2 of a suit. I always look at connected/suited boards and get defensive in live plo full ring. I understand that short hand online is a different game and ranges change but in live plo its usually a wrap vs set vs nfd hands. What can he possible think I have that I am willing to CR and shove with? I am always going to have a set, nfd, wrap here and he is ahead of none of those (unless its a naked nfd).
I am still trying to figure out 2 pair in live plo and its a work in progress. Example:
The other night at 1/2 PLO I am stuck about $1600 and a guy sits down that we have never seen at midnight. He tries to buy in for more than the max and is all in preflop 3 ways with QQ73 and scoops and now has $1k. He builds that to $2500 in an hour just playing nuts, raising anything preflop and making hands. I finally get him to call off vs my double-suited AA hand and I now have $1200 and he still covers.
The hand:
I have AKJ6 DS and I limp preflop (straddle pot) and it limps around (standard for the table bc he raisies every time) and he raises to $30. I Make it $100 and we are $1000 deep and it folds to him and he calls.
Flop comes A96 rainbow and he leads $125. I hate 2 pair and this is a spot where I have to go with it vs this guy. I raise to $375 and he tanks and shoves! I have to call right?
IMO, his most likely hand here is some sort of wrap or OESD. Occasionally he can have 96 + gutter or something along those lines. Occasionally he can have A9, set of 6's (less combos because you hold a 6), set of 9's. I think that folding on the flop would be a mistake. You have outs against A9, ahead of 96. Did you have any BDFD's?
When you raised on the flop, were you unsure about what you were going to do if he shoved?
But based on your description of the preflop maniac; I would definitely pot OR it preflop and hope for a profitable 4 bet scenario.
I would probably also vote for just calling his lead on flop. That would be a very profitable situation in position with a hand that I have under-repped and with BD eq (straights and T2P). Have you seen him lead before?
As played (which is not bad either) you need 31,2% and hence have to make a crying call. Its close vs. a guy that have many sets in his range (due to loose preflop stats and the fact that he has been showing strong hands down all night ). But you are 35-40% vs. A9-type hands which would be descent part of his range.
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