PAD hand 300/600/1200 galfond has QQ56 ds

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PAD hand 300/600/1200 galfond has QQ56 ds

Watching a pad PLO game and a preflop spot came up that I thought was semi interesting. I know live plays differently than online but is that true when its the same lineup and short handed?

Phil is in the bob w QQ56 ds and Ivey is the straddler. Pa folds and Hastings is on he button and makes it $3500. Dwan folds and both Phils call. I would think that the way Hastings has been playing (most active) and Ivey limping, galfond can raise here.

-I am interested more in the dynamic of live play and if thought processes change vs online? I always see live PLO as a lot of flop seeing and not as aggressive preflop. I have never played with the same lineup in both formats.

-Is this ever a raise pre?

8 Comments

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Mikey Stotz 12 years, 2 months ago
I think that even though you might be well ahead of Hasting's preflop raising range, the positional advantage he has trumps the money that you would get out of him by 3 betting and having him call w/ an inferior hand. Perhaps it's exploitable but I try to avoid bloating the pot when OOP, especially when the players that will act after me are good + aggressive players. I guess there is some merit to getting Ivey out of the hand but I'd still prefer a call.

I recently watched the same episode and if I remember correctly, they were all very deep at the start of this hand which certainly is an important factor in the preflop decision. It was definitely interesting to watch these guys play live and see the difference between the live vs online even though it was roughly the same lineup + same stakes.
Sam Lang 12 years, 2 months ago
calling is gonna be profitable, and so is 3bing here, it's really not a black/white spot where one is a lot more profitable than the other. I guess the things to consider are what edge phil feels he has on the players postflop and who he wants to keep in the hand; if he 3bs it's going to be a HU pot between phil and brian postflop OOP a lot of the time, and if he calls it is going to go multiway a lot of the time. Another thing to consider is the stack sizes of the other players and that of Phil; if the player to his left is very deep stacked, calling is a more attractive option than 3bing where when we double up, we have a deepstacked player to our left and may be put in tough spots in subsequent hands. Conversely we may be more willing to 3b if the player to our right is deepstacked or a weak player is deepstacked to have those players covered, so if we double up, it may lead to profitable situations later on. Also it is extremely high stakes, so lowering variance may have some merit.
cAp217 12 years, 2 months ago
I really want to hear some comments on live vs online... The preflop spot is an either/or and there is no right answer, I get that. But I feel that watching this PAD PLO was really passive poker. I am curious why this happened. This lineup usually has a lot of big pots and way more action preflop.

Could it be that there were no "fish" or action players at the table (without naming)?
Mikey Stotz 12 years, 2 months ago
Do you think this could be attributed to the fact that PAD showed a very small number of hands relative to the number of hands you would see if you were observing these guys 6 table the same stakes online? Maybe if you pulled up one table and watched that you'd see a similar level of aggression. Not saying that there isn't a different dynamic just thinking of reasons why it might seem more passive when watching live poker. I'm sure Phil can chime in and give us a first hand account of the dynamics of the game.
jloo87 12 years, 2 months ago
being OOP to a good player is probably why pg didn't 3bet that hand. Also pg has got phil behind him who is has him covered.

Another point is that when pg 3bets here he isn't really pushing much of an equity edge and combine with the fact that he has worse absolute position, 3betting will just be increasing variance and nothing more.

Thats what I think anyways... someone correct me if my thoughts are wrong
cAp217 12 years, 2 months ago
I agree and can find all the reasons not to 3 bet this hand. But I am still interested in the dynamics of live PLO vs Online PLO. I feel that this game was loose passive preflop and not much action. These guys online would be 3-4 betting hands and going crazy.

Maybe its the lineup, sample size, not being able to run it 2x... I am just curious.
Phil Galfond 12 years, 2 months ago
I had a hand that I was happy to take 3ways, and one that isn't very playable in HU 3b pots oop. I much prefer a call to a 3bet here, live or online.

In general, live does play more loose/passive than online. Part of this has to do with the players, but another part has to do with boredom, in my opinion. One tabling live gets pretty slow. I think people have more fun seeing flops without bloating pots. It keeps them busy, and it's more relaxed than playing high intensity, huge 3bet pots where you're playing slowly and trying to soul-read each other.

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