This is a definite fold.

Here's my thoughts on why:
- I don't think you can really determine which opponent has what, given the action. If you do have some thoughts on it, do you think this should weight into our decision to call or fold?
- Was the logic of flatting the flop for deception and pot control? I think this is good but then surely if this is the case when this gets blown out of the water we have to give up.
- Being 200+bbs deep in a spot where you aren't able to use this stack well, doesn't help us.
- Like you said, you could be getting free-rolled by J8xcxc, in which case you are in terrible shape. This is by far the worst case scenario. Even TTxcxc is ahead of us.
- Another big problem is being multi-way. I ran a bunch of different scenarios versus sets and flushes etc, not comprehensive by any means, but you rarely come out as a favourite, even with the flopped nuts. The best case is that you are up against the same hand from one player and two pair from the other, putting you at 50%, and this is unlikely or up against 2 sets, at 44%.
- You are getting very bad odds to call for the equity you have.

Fold the nuts, do it!

Tks for this! I thought I should have folded even after the flat post hand but felt very uneasy about it. Nice summary for me.

I'm never folding here. We have too much equity.

Well obviously against the top of their ranges we do bad.

1 could be shoving with the nut flush, another with a set, another with two pair and open ender, or a wrap, another with the same hand except we have a small redraw. it doesn't really matter. If you're going to fold the nuts when you flop it, take it as a cooler if you lose.

SB has $6.00, and the MP lag is shoving for $15.00, we have $11.00. There will be a split pot and we do amazing against a LAG MP range, he probably has a flush draw or a wrap which we block.

Lol - my brain was having precisely this discussion from both points of view when I was playing. Then someone else suggested that it was a snap fold the first time around but after the first call I was priced in to call the rest. So confused

I feel as if 200BB coolers should be avoided if possible. You do feel foolish if you fold, are immature enough to hang around to see what they had and see 2 pair or a set win the pot tho

I think this hand is where math plays a role. Define their ranges and see whether you have enough equity to call. If we have 0 redraw nuts, this can be a fold but three Q gives us the K high nut straights.

I don't think you are priced in, work out the odds, they don't look that great even with the money you put in. Plus the likelihood that you could be drawing to only half the pot too.

Also definitely watch the action to take notes and I would note the hands they played. I guess mentally we need to think I'm looking to see what they had rather than to see if I would have won the pot, bit of a challenge.

you do have a redraw.... but probbly bad continuing after raises

Unless they have wide ranges like one of them shows up with naked nuts a lot, 86 with a nfd or any nut+a gutter or better id fold. On a train so dont have PJ and this is the best i could do.

3w equity

And we have about 45-46% in the side pot against mp (the 30% range) which unless my math is wrong would make it a close fold (EV- about 60-70 cents).

This describes worst case scenario though if ur opps are not nits (in that case we have an easy fold) so I dont mind getting it in just in case my ranges are off and their ranges are wider.

Also dont agree that we should fold vs the first raise (again it is close and nuts with no gs might be) with 20 excellent turns were we have a the nuts. I would need extreme reads that the bettor almost always RR after it goes raise+cold call putting us in a break even spot like this. I think without such reads folding to the initial raise is worse than calling the first raise and folding to the RR>RRR assuming two scenarios with similar ranges.

I'll give it a shot:
(30%!6%):(J8:(cc,q,tt,99,77)) - 30% of hands expect top6% AND J8 with any 2 clubs, or with Q,tens,nines,sevens.

I'd love to see spassewr giving the right explanation

30%:(J8:(kcc,acc),tt:cc,(acc,kcc):(99,77),86:acc) - combos from top 30% that include J8 with clubs, queen, OR TT with clubs, OR Axcc (NFD), Kxcc(2nd NFD) or 99,77, 86combos that also include A-high FD

would someone who is good at syntax thing mind to explain these rangers correct?

EDIT: fixed some

I recommend agreeing on a range in plan English first, then get someone to compute it, what do you think?

I think that both ranges should be no wider than: j8,77,tt,99,Acxc,T9

Really I think they are closer to j8,77,tt,99,Acxc

In terms of one being tighter. I'm no longer sure that this is correct given the way the hand played out they could have similar ranges.