Live 10/20 4 way spot
Posted by Choparno
Posted by
Choparno
posted in
High Stakes
Live 10/20 4 way spot
Game is 10/20 PLO live full ring 10 handed game
Hero is BU with $15k effective and has whole table covered
Villain 1, $4k, (MP): tight weak passive reg who plays hands face up
Villain 2, $3k, (BB): big aggro fish, likes to pot alot of hands pre and bet alot of flops with anything
Villain 3, $2500 (SB): super tight reg, only plays aggressive with the nuts
Preflop Action:
UTG limps, MP limps, Hero overlimps BU with 4h5h8s9s, SB completes, BB raises to 100, everyone calls.
Flop ($500): 2h6d8h
SB checks, BB pots it for 500, UTG folds, villain 1 calls, what's our play here?
BB is super wide and villain 1 can never have made hands here, he would raise all 68+ hands in this spot and there's not many 28 or 26 combos in his preflop range.
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I'll preface this by saying I don't know anything about live poker but I guess I'll get the discussion started. Wouldn't it be better to raise this hand pre instead of overlimping?
The flop seems like a fold to me. You will have better hands to jam in your range than this one. I think the mistake here is pre, there aren't going to be many flops you like 4 ways.
You kind of have to play hands like this in live poker if you want to play more than one pot an hour. Raising isn't that great because usually everyone will just call and you'll have built a big pot with your mediocre hand.
i dont think limp-calling will be -EV for hero even though the situation is far from ideal. getting a nitty image (which is what well get if we fold pre in spots like these) jeopardize our future pay-off potential unless villains really arent paying attention in my experience (we end up betting the nuts in a 5k pot the next hour and the guy thinks and thinks and then remembers oh this is the guy that hasnt played a hand in an hour, ill fold)...i wouldnt play this hand for my image if i thought it was -EV, but if i thought calling was just slightly +EV, the "advertising" argument would be enough for me to snap call.
Firstly I kind of agree with pasty that this hand is going to get you into trouble but I get that you have one player potting everything and you need to play some hands and you have position.
As played, I like completing pre because we have good virtual position against the aggro player. We only have one player, the SB to act after us and we know if we get heat from him we are going to be behind.
In general, I like to protect my stack and play more conservatively in a dynamic like this where I have a lot of chips at a table and feel like I am in the zone. I have found that shorter stacks will try to gamble with me and get a double up but bluff less. It makes good $ sense but also for game flow and maintaining a good mindset, i.e. bit of a difference getting stacked with 100bbs to running it up then donating it back.
I think it comes down to your experience with the two players in raise pots. Knowing how they will react with what ranges to your flop action is key, both on the flop, and how they will play turns if you flat. For example, does the weak player flat but then just call off with a nut FD or does he always raise the nut FD? Does the crazy guy fire one then shut down or gii super light?
Given you have eliminated strong made hands from the weak player's range, If you can be confident he also doesn't have a nut FD then I think raising is best to fold out higher non-nut flush. It should also fold out good wraps that have us crushed.
On the other hand by flatting we maximise the benefit of our position on the turn. If we raise we end the hand sooner and don't realise this positional advantage. If the turn brings a flush and it goes bet raise or even bet call, we can consider folding and getting off cheaply. Downside is it could go 4 way.
We aren't really worried about the aggro player because his range is too wide to factor in in such a MW pot.
The SB is a bit of an issue, because if we raise we will commit our self against him if he goes all in, most likely drawing to a prayer. Given he is tight I don't think we can worry too much because his range for check raising all in here is very small, e.g. strong hands like 88AhTh or 79ThAh etc.
So all that considered, the real deciding factor for me is what turn cards do we like? Really a 3 and that's it. A 7 gives us a non-nut straight and likewise a flush card a low flush. Also a J, Q, K or A could be a good card for us to bluff with if the action slows down. So really our hand is more of a bluffing hand than a value hand. We just decide to bluff now on the flop or wait until the turn.
So I decide to either play a big pot on the flop or a small one on the turn or to showdown.
Id pot it with these reads, altho i feel like thats what u want me to say as the reads were probably thenones u had at the time. I think flatting is fine, but without good turn reads and a low spr it gets tricky to play vs further action even tho 2w we will have more than 33% eq on most turns. In the end ill prob just end up taking my fold equity and jam here. Once the spr gets closer to 15-20 i doubt id raise vs pretty much any1
This seems like an easy fold on the flop. Also, calling preflop because you want to see more hands per hour doesn't seem like a good reason to call.
Pre its debatable, so I will only comment post:
Im not folding flop, I aint raising it. So call, whats the turn and the action?
Agree with Alex even though raising is tempting with these reads.
Since I am a live PLO player and understand ranges and what people go with live vs online I will comment.
preflop is a limp call with this hand in this lineup. It can get you paid in a lot of ways vs players who are bad and will overplay hands and not valuebet where they should. You have to play hands like this and be able to get away in spots like this as well.
flop is a fold I think. You don't make any nut hands here and with V1 flatting a fish he usually has your hand dominated by drawing to better flushes and straights. I'm sure he has Ah in his hand.
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