is this spew or standard in the flop?

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is this spew or standard in the flop?

None: Jon Doe: 0
villain is a big blue whale 98/85/55 (3bet) with an agg factor of 3,5

My doubt is in the flop, the reason why I raise preflop is for obtain a free card in the flop, then I bet the flop after his check , when the plan was check behind and get a free card, I was lucky on the river, but is my line ok, of course after his raise in the flop i think i'm commited with my 9 wrap outs.


Is all this standard or should i check behind on the flop?


14 Comments

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cprice72 11 years, 4 months ago

Probably checking back the flop and taking a free card with our double gutshot.  Don't know if I like the jam here on the flop, a player like this is never folding to our jam and there are going to be better spots in which we have better equity vs this type of villain to get it in with.

Aleksandra ZenFish 11 years, 4 months ago

Well , to be noted is that UTG limped premium hand to induce 4 bet, which is worth to take a note off

I like your 3 bet , because that hand if you want to play you really don't want it to go multiway cause it wil be often dominated, tho max size would be preferable considering your holding 

On the flop , once he checks, you really really want that free card, mainly because your draw is often dominated - you are drawing for the low end ~ which is always bad in PLO, and tho your hand has some equity value ~ its not sure does it have any equity at all ( u can be up against 9Tjq wraps that already have a pair and alike, being main reason why u would prefer a check instead of bet

Once u betted, you are basically committed so stack off, nicer hand , but not wil bring you many joys and moneys in plo

We should have tags , i can't find it now, but my first posts on RIO were alike yours, and it took me few months on when NOT to play lowsuitconnectors and why, but browse old posts, mostly the ones that have spew in title, zenfish usually explains ,much better then me

Basicly , because your hand wil be often called from behind , and wil be confronting multiple ranges that completely own such a hand, for example - UTG ~ high cards, behind you, rundowns , but ones that dominate you, so such spots are in general ones to avoid ! specially when theres so many ppl behind you get to act

This one turned out well, so nh~



PLOpleyah 11 years, 3 months ago

Thx Alexandra I won this hand but I could easily lost it , I raised pre by the reasons u said, it's not a nutty hand and I don't want a multi pot,  so the thing is the flop action and think you have explained it very well. And take note on how to play these low RD, I really feel I'm overplaying them.

Aleksandra ZenFish 11 years, 3 months ago

Just browse older posts, there were some great analysis of alike spots, spew hands in all positions in various situations, very useful for all of us that like to spew and like this cuuuuute lil cards and if they re suited ~ we are in love total~ just need a reason to shove ( whatever excuse :S )



arukidinme 11 years, 3 months ago

I like the pf raise.  While we might get limp 4b for utg he still needs to be worried about us being able to 4b and might fold and we get to play hu ip.  So I probably raise a ton of my range in this spot (maybe only limp with on way hands).

Flop is played well.  Some of these guys are post flop nits but we have a lot of outs nd are going to be in good shape with our 12 outs ( even though a lot are non nut).  Don't have odds oracle in front of me but we have to be near 50% against a gii range.


arukidinme 11 years, 3 months ago

Well I just work backwards from an SPR situation.  With about 3-4 SPR we are going to need 42-45% equity to breakeven assuming that we have no fold equity.  In this situation we have a lonely pair of 7s and a lot of turn cards that wil not improve our hand or kill our action.  Against a guy 3b 50% of hands he is going to have a lot of disconnected hands which make weak one pair hands, or bare over pairs.  


So I just start to try and realize FE by betting flop and turn.  It hard to range these absolute preflop spaztards because as I mentioned some play very fit or fold post flop and some just continue to gamble it up.  The reason I am more happy to GII here is because he has checked to us.  I think that this discounts a lot of the draws that would have us in terrible shape.  I do not think that a lot of players (specially lag players) will check QJ9, J97, T97, 897, 976 which are the hands that we are most worried about on these board textures.  These are the hands that are going to have us in the worse shape, special if they contain a pair over ours (QJT9 in example).


For arguments sake we can give him a GII range like this and we still b/e with a bet/call if this makes up 100% of his range.

I actually think this is too wide, and too value heavy given that villain has checked to us but better to be sake and estimate wide.

So how often does he have a GII range?  


So villain will x/r 21% of the time (we will assume fold the rest although I think that we make more money in the long run when he calls and folds turns).

So what is the EV of a b/gii line (can not really b/f this hand)

EV =fold FQ*pot+ SD*(EQ*Gain-(1-EQ)*loss))

EV= (79%*1.2)+21%*((43.6%*5.2)-(56.4%*-4))EV= .948 + 21%*(2.26-2.26)EV=.948+21%*0EV= .948So as you see all the EV comes from the FE that we generate by betting the flop so I think that checking back is a huge mistake.  Also the playability of hand suck on the turns and rivers.  Any cards that improve us we get no action, other cards can improve villain to one pair two pair or other hands that he was happy to fold on the flop.
midori 11 years, 3 months ago

Yeah I agree with this, with this strong of a draw we want to get it in now.  Lots of turn cards will devalue our hand, or improve us in quite obvious ways hence negating our implied odds.

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