Interesting turn decision, deep oop

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Posted by posted in Mid Stakes

Interesting turn decision, deep oop

BB: BB: $573.36
UTG: UTG: $428
HJ: MP: $619.28
CO: Hero: $1478.52
BN: BTN: $1191.08
SB: SB: $613.04
Preflop ($6.00) (6 Players)
Hero was dealt 8 4 K T
UTG folds, MP folds, Hero raises to $12, BTN calls $12, SB calls $10, BB calls $8
Flop ($48.00) 3 4 4 (4 Players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $24, BTN raises to $88, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls $64
Turn ($224.00) 5 (2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $224, Hero calls $224
River ($672.00) A (2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $448, Hero folds
Final Pot
BTN wins $666

considering a turn CR to possibly get str8:s to fold and also as a thin valueraise against som weaker trips.

9 Comments

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nicklas antonsson 11 years, 6 months ago

well it's very hard to put him on a range i think. 1. he is ultraloose with vpip 70. 2. he is capable of making pretty big postflop mistakes. I cant really think of any hand that would wanna raise in his spot. I thought that if he raise nuts on flop, he would probably wanna raise some 567 combos or just 5778 or something just be somewhat balanced. and i feel if thats the case, it would be pretty good to get those hands to fold turn. and even 33 would be difficult for him to play facing a turn CR. And in a dream scenario we could also getting value from worse trips, that we dominate. 

jonna102 11 years, 6 months ago

Folding seems like the only reasonable option on the turn, but is this a clear fold even on the flop?  I think I tend to peel the flop raise here myself, but I'm not entirely convinced that it's good (when the opponent's raising range is 100% nuts).

VodkaHaze 11 years, 6 months ago

Yeah, sorry I had to answer that in <1minutes, I couldn't explain myself.

IDK where reads are; some posters say he has a VPIP of 70, I can't see where that's said. So I'll just play GTO in those cases

We are at the top of our range on flop (and turn tbh). We wouldn't fold flop even if villain showed us 33xx, since we're getting direct odds to draw to the nuts

This turn hits villain's range much harder than ours, meaning he will likely continue with his bluffs here OTT expecting us to fold overpairs (>70% of our expected range). He pots turn, so he needs to fold 50% of our range if he has complete air; if we fold this hand we fold more around 80-90% of our range.

So if we fold this turn we're basically saying "you're a complete nit and I'm exploiting the hell out of you", since we never continue here with our range. I haven't seen such reads, so I'll say "don't fold the top of your range against an unknown".

I could see a turn c/r semibluff or c/c. Against a PSB I much prefer a c/c, since his valuebet range is going to be much more nut heavy (from experience)

River is interesting because I could see all options being good depending on our expectations. I don't mind folding if he's a 70/10 kind of player, or calling if he's more of a crazy 70/40 aggrotard. If we thought he had a fold button I could even see a CRAI being cool, but against fishes I wouldn't tempt it.


To answer ZZzzZZZzz, I'd just say he has "33xx", "4x" and "bluffs" in his range on flop. I won't venture into trying to quantify what hands he chooses to bluff with, but I would guess 355x and 9966 kind of hands seem to fit as bluffs



nicklas antonsson 11 years, 6 months ago

Well, I am the one who posted the hand in the first place, and can confirm he is very loose. He plays like 70/40 but I dont find him to be that aggro post flop. With that being said, I dont actually think CR turn is very good against this opponent, but could see several reasons to do so against a std reg. 1. We fold out str8:s that actually has us beat. 2. We can sometimes fold out 33. 3. We can get it in good, when he has hands like 4TJQ etc.

Interesting to see that you consider a CC on river Vodkahaze. You dont think he would shut down on his bluffs when we CC turn? Also feel like A is a very bad card for him to continue bluffing with...

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