Interesting 25/50 PLO ZOOM hand
Posted by Domce
Posted by
Domce
posted in
High Stakes
Interesting 25/50 PLO ZOOM hand
SB: ZiWuvdUbtiYd: $2000
BB: Skjervy: $11778.25
HJ: trlanke: $7940.38
CO: Domce: $19856.66
trlanke raises to $125, Domce calls $125, duubadaaba folds, ZiWuvdUbtiYd raises to $550, Skjervy folds, trlanke calls $425, Domce calls $425
Hello guys I recently played quite an interesting hand at 25/50 ZOOM PLO, wanted to double check what guys think about my line. "ZiwuvdUbtiYD" is a regular for lower games than 25/50 and these ones plays as short stack mostly. I am beating his range in this situation, however popping it up achieves not that much, not sure if "trlanke" (new player in the games, at least I saw him the first time, look like an abc player on the tighter side) would ever make a mistake if I raise small, "ZiwuvdUbtiYD" decides to ship & I don't want to face up my hand in this spot so I think call is the most optimal decision preflop with the current stack sizes. On the flop once they both check "ZiwuvdUbtiYD" is most likely having complete air as I think he would get in AAxx QQJx QQTX JT9x QT9x any flush draw combo all the time, maybe even A9xx there unluess he has AAxxss combo and decided to play tricky, however we are getting it in against that hand all the time anyway. Flop didn't hit our opponents pretty much as we block both their Kxxx hands and spades, sets and 2pair combos would lead into us most likely, "trlanke" range is pretty wide here from rundowns to strong connected pairs and double pair hands, I decided to check back as there are very few bad cards for us on the turn and they can even be good ones as they would induce bluffs from our opponents with let's say blockers to the straights + we let guys chase 2pair combos, lower sets, let them make lower flushes, "ZiwuvdUbtiYD" will think that he still might represent value hand on complete blanks and try to pull as out. So we hit a complete blank on the turn "ZiwuvdUbtiYD" decides to bet small, expecting that we both completely missed, "trlanke" calls there with pretty wide range there as he gets extremly good price to draw anything so I decided to raise at this point and get called by "trlanke". River card looks decent as we block the 6 & I am not sure if the opponent would ship first A3xx there, so the key combos we are afraid of are 653x. With no additional info about our opponent I think it's quite an easy call on the river, maybe u guys got other opinions. Looking forward to your comments.
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With the sb being so short here, I like a 4bet pre. Just get it in with him and chase out the HJ. You said above that you your ahead of his range, and your really only worried about AA. If he does have AA, you have 34%, and its only costing you 40bb. (your break even is around 40%)
If the sb folds, great for you, and if the HJ wants to come along, you have position with a top 4% hand in a big pot. (I can think of much worse scenarios)
As played, I am betting this flop. There are a lot of hands that you want to fire with here. It has been checked to you in a 3bet multi way pot. This is a green light situation in which you should be betting more often than checking. Your opponents should know that, so they will call or push more than you think. I like a check back if this was heads up.
Tough spot on the river. It is hard to see him bluffing because you block spades and he should know that it is likely you will call with 2 pair. On the other hand, I agree with you that you are only worried about 653x, so you really cant fold.
I would probably call but I am not sure that is correct.
Think you should bet flop to protect your bluffing range, which must be wide, considering how weak you think they are. You also have so much equity going into the river, that I will call, as I don't want to fold both my bluffs and value-hands. I like preflop by the way, the hand plays very well in position 3-way.
What I'm thinking is, could your deceptive flop check narrow down your value range so much in Villain's eyes, that he's overbluffing in an attempt to exploit your range? If he thinks you're full of protection raises on the turn (i.e. Villain expects you to have lots of hands that do fine against the shortstack, so you risk a raise once Villain just calls the shortstack's turn bet).
That said, Villain's line is perfectly consistent with the hand he's repping on the river.
I don't get why you raise the turn so small 3-way, putting the 40bb guy all-in already. You and the 40bb guy made it cheap enough for all his A3:Ass hands to stay in the hand.
Even with your (semi)bluffs you likely want to push trlanke out of the pot, the cost of raising bigger against him should be low since he already capped his range quite a bit.
On the river, this doesn't seem like a river that should hit him all that hard, you are at the top of your range and you 5s and 6d should block a bunch of the 653 hands that he is doing this with. So all you need to fold is a read that he or the population underbluff this river in order to make an exploitative fold.
To continue along the line of exploitation, taking the global perspective:
The flop check-back is extremely exploitative, since checking back the nuts with a strong redraw in a multiway pot doesn't make much sense, GTO-wise. We are obviously doing it to induce EV on future streets. Since we are pretending to be weak, we are hoping to inducing that EV from future calls, bets, and raises we would otherwise not get.
We're at the top of our range + getting to the river via this very exploitative starting point is an argument for defending more than we otherwise would. Otherwise, I think we are being counterproductive. It makes sense that we should require a stronger than usual read to make what seems to be a very exploitative fold.
I agree with you looks like raising small wasn't a good idea, I just didn't think he could have Ace high spades there ever with his given line, wanted to keep weak hands in & induce light ship out there, didn't work out though :)
You said that the river was a easy call, so you called?
Yes I called as it was the plan for all the river cards out there, unfortunately saw him having 6543.
I think we have to bet flop and we have to call river
If Zi is 3betting wide pre, I think you need to 4b for value. But it's close enough that idc.
On flop, assuming you think it's -EV to stab pure air here, I don't see why you need to check back the super nuts.
On turn you need to raise, why not make it bigger?
On river call. He has very few straight combos given his line, and tons of potential bluffs, and you're very far up in your range. He might even randomly show up with K5 or 555.
Thanks guys for the answers, looks like betting the flop would have been a better decision as not a single of you liked my check there, well, live and learn :)
Before seeing the results I was gonna say that noone ever bluffs this river without a lot of history, so I think it's a fairly easy fold. The fact that you block two kings and a 5, and the way the hand was played make K5 and 55 are veery unlikely. I don't think it matters you are high up in your range here as we don't even block a 3, and almost have a bluffcatcher. I'd expect this call to show a huuge loss.
I also like your checkback on the flop as an exploitative adjustment, obv it is unbalanced, but the fact that people say stabbing with air here is profitable is because it is just so likely both players will fold, especially you blocking two kings, in fact I think checking back here is wayy more +ev in a vacuum than betting.
First off, his range contains many missed draws, so adding some rivered nuts to his checking range should induce more bluffs and 'light' valuebets.
It must be some weird donkish tendency that makes people shove their nuts in the spot, while being afraid to bluff.
Also, if you expect to be behind his callingrange if you shove the river, that means that the turn should be a pot sized raise, since we can't valuebet blank rivers.
What's wrong with leading a board changing river with the nuts and bluffs and check-deciding hands that block the value-range domce is repping from a theory perspective ?
Wasn't that what we did in the [0.1] game ?
If Domce is gonna bet wider than he calls, shoving the nuts must surely be a bad play. And given that Domce felt so bad about his call with topset + 2 blockers to 653 that he decided to make this thread is a strong indication that Domce would do that.
Also the [0,1] game has no card removal, and is only 1 street. Seems hard to apply to this spot.
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