Who wins more on J66r 3bp
Posted by sted9000
Posted by
sted9000
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Mid Stakes
Who wins more on J66r 3bp
Thinking about strategies on J66r in a blind vs late position 3bp, 100bb starting stacks. Interesting question though is who wins more of the pot ?
Range distributions: IP, OP
I would guess IP. Although he has 44% equity (disadvantage) he has almost 50% more 6xxx+ hands. I think that this along with the small added benefit of being ip should outweigh the equity disadvantage.
Thoughts/guesses appreciated
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IP wins more.
I'd say oop wins more often, but ip wins bigger pots
Why especially j66r why not Q22? or 25T
no reason. just looking at dry paired boards in 3bps
Depends on IP and OOP :)
What do you guys think of these default strategies ?
IP (vs common OOP cbet strategy of frequently cbetting small with a lot of his range): Raise 1/2 6xxx, Flat 1/2 6xxx, Bluff raise AK or AQ combos, flat AJ,QQ+, double pair combos.
- Benefits of this strat is that 1) we get a lot of immediate folds because we block A,K,Q, 2) We can flat with hands with a lot of equity vs his range (namely AJ, KK, QQ) and not be be capped.
OP Cbet range: Bet 40%, Check 60% with smallish (1/3 pot) sizing: http://gyazo.com/b7eb497495ba44b8b9c3a560a5eadae3
- Bet 2/3 6+, All AA combos, and 1/2 of "air" (Defend vs raise with AA+)
- Check 1/3 of 6+, All J+, and 1/2 of Air (Defend vs bet with QQ+ and Best J+ hands)
Haven't checked the numbers yet but I think OP should be betting more often than 40% on this flop. Also, there are merits for checking with AA and betting with worse overpairs because AA don't need protection at all, whereas QQ/KK does.
Even though this is a 3bet pot, there is a good chance that we have to play turn/river. Because of that, thinking of flop play in a vacuum might not teach us about the best strategy pair.
I agree with maybe subbing the KK,QQ combos in for the AA ones would be better, because we are not going to be getting multiple streets with AA anyway we might as well choose a hand that needs some protection.
So I just constructed these ranges in a way that they 1) were not immediately exploitable to a raise, 2) that used the qualities of the hand groupings in a beneficial way and 3) had some nutty hands that could felt in every actions range.
What other ways of thinking or methods can we used to "teach us about the best strategy pair." ?
Thanks
That's a good starting point. If I were to study this stop deeper, I'd consider some turn spots and see how both ranges should be played. Even if IP can't immediately profit by raising on flop, he can still float and play turn/river profitably, and OOP has to be careful. This is especially true when a lot of OOP's "value" c-betting range is capped to one pair. In addition to the IP's calling range you suggested, I think he can also flat (or bluff raise) with hands with some bdf, say T987 type of hands. These can pick up draws on a lot of turns, which certainly becomes a consideration.
By the way, given that most people c-bet too much on these flops (as a 3-bettor), I'd think IP should be able to win more money. However, that's because OOP doesn't play optimally, not because OOP's range is inherently weaker than IP's. If they were both playing close to GTO, well, who knows - I'm not gonna pretend as if I have solved this spot for GTO, because I clearly haven't. :)
Sted you didn't mention what IP is doing with J6xx, JJxx, and 66xx in your proposed strat, are you suggesting playing mixed strat like with 6xxx?
Guess it will depend a lot on sidecards, raising AK66 will propably have a much smaller EV than raising 7665 if villain is defending properly. And I'd guess it also depends a lot what strategy OOP uses on turn with his overpairs/bluffs/generally his range once called OTF.
hmmm. idk. I think I would raise with my J6 and JJ and flat with 66. Because you want to get the money in now vs weaker 6xxx hands and you only block one 6 (although on second thought this point may not be a huge deal as the money is almost always getting in when both players have trips+ in a 3bp).
Ya. Thinking a bit more about it, I think EdgeKing is right in bloated pots (in a mixed strategy, you should flat hands with side cards that act as blockers to there continuing range). However in SRPs I would guess raising AK6X might have more EV than 765X because you need to make sure you get the money in vs opponents weaker trips combos.
Yeah, was just my approach for the super nutted hands that don't have to worry about getting it in behind.
Very logical assumptions
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