How to play aces OOP 3-way spr 1,8 without blockers

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How to play aces OOP 3-way spr 1,8 without blockers

Blinds: $0.05/$0.10 (6 Players) BN: $10.00
SB: $10.00 (Hero)
BB: $10.00
UTG: $12.03
MP: $21.00
CO: $15.70
Preflop ($0.15) Hero is SB with Q J A A
UTG calls $0.10, MP calls $0.10, CO raises to $0.40, BN folds, Hero raises to $1.50, BB folds, UTG calls $1.40, MP folds, CO calls $1.10
Flop ($4.70) 2 8 K
Hero
?

UTG: Big fish 75/24 80hands
CO LAG: 27/18 AF 2,3 430hands

I don't know how to play on this flop, because I don't have a king, I don't have As.. So I was lost.

What is the best line? Cbet pot? or x and see the action?

14 Comments

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Heartbreaker 8 years ago

SPR is only 2:1, maybe just cbet flop? Maybe even just flat preflop instead of 3betting pre because you are OOP? But once you blast it pre, might as well blast the rest in on the flop and hope for the best? I dunno. If they don't have KK or the nut FD they aren't gonna like your cbet and might fold out their equity. I don't like checking the flop because it's just asking to be bluffed off your hand and giving people a free card for their flush draws and 2 pair draws if they check it back.

tnl 7 years, 11 months ago

You are not able to realize your equity if you check. Betting something like 3.5 will be profitable and saves you 10bb compared to potting. If only CO calls i will x call any 8 and 2. Bet any none spade and xf Q, J, K OTT.

JimmyGlass 7 years, 11 months ago

well, my knowledge doesn't allow me to do too much here, in terms of giving the answer if b\GII is better that any other option. the reason is that even if we pot, we get some non-fold or shove decisions (especially from UTG who can call here vs pot Cbet)

but if we assume that they both either going all in or folding vs our pot cbet that what we've got:

first ragnes:
UTG pre $FI50 ! $3bo4,AA
CO pre $FI25 ! AA

OTF UTG going to get it in vs bet with:
K2+,28+:hh!RR,K+:ss,Ass,QQ+:Jss+
with is 29.5% of his preflop peel range
hero has 34% when GII HU vs this sub-range on avarege.

CO (its a bit more complicated, his GII sub-range might\should differ depending on UTG action):
goes all in with K8+,K2+:(ss),82+:ss,Ass,K+:Jss+

36% of his pre peeling range,
hero has 32% against it

finally when we go AI 3way which happends 10.5% of time) it's 16% of equity on avarege for us.

**note: ~30% of CO's get it in range is KK combos.

https://ibb.co/nzkSyv

texasflood2 7 years, 11 months ago

So, It's very close, but is bet/call shove, right? And another question:
How many times will I play the pot against a player at least after my cbet?

JadeLizard 7 years, 11 months ago

If their fold stats are overall high (especially in 3b pots) you might go for a Cbet. Meaning that their tendencies are quite fight or fold post flop, if so, cbet probably around 3/4 pot.

Otherwise I think you can probably x-fold without to much worry. You really only have your aces and a very unlikely bdsd (given that alot of your outs are probably in villans hands).

Could consider x-c against UTG if Co folds.

Overall you are OOP with a face up hand with really poor equity against anything that fights back and you will hate pretty much every turn but the non flush completing Ace or a few of the low cards.

Biggest problem I see on this type of board is that there is only strong made hands or flush draws that will fight back and against those hands we are far behind or flipping at best. So stacking of here shouldnt be profitable with bare AA. You havent really invested that much in the hand and you flopped almost the worst possible so a x-fold or bet fold is probably the only option, depending of the tendencies of the villains.

ZeroDegrees 7 years, 11 months ago

I'm playing plo5 so take my comment accordingly. To me this seems like a super easy pot/gii. We can't ask for a better board than this, except for the flush draw. If we fold here I can't see what boards we are playing.

JadeLizard 7 years, 11 months ago

ZeroDegrees in what percentile would you qualify this flop for your hand? You have a bare over pair and no redraw besides a very unlikely straight, of which you will need to dodge spades twice.

Even if you get the same flop but with 2 clubs you will find that you are rarely that far ahead on this type of flop when villain actually flips over his cards. Yes many times he has flopped a miracle but with this hand we have no good outs besides one Ace.

The question to ask is often not so much as what do I bet-gii in this spot but what will villain re-jam with? You are never ahead against a re-jam, a pot bet with this hand on this board serves only to fold out air. But when you do hit what should villain then gii with if you pot and hold several key blockers? A small bet will be much more beneficial in this type of spot.

You are hoping he calls with a pair of kings with decent kicker and a second pair in his hand, this is the only type of hand you are way ahead of (KdQd5s5d = 23% vs actual hand). A 12% hand is ahead of your hand here, even just a Kxxx is ahead. So yeah I think you will find way better flops to play;)

So a cheap stab vs fold happy villains or just x-fold imo.

ZeroDegrees 7 years, 11 months ago

As I said, I'm a beginner. To me a c-bet seems a must; I don't see many 2 pair hands, for instance run-downs with a K and/or an 8 and it would be a catastrophe if the flop goes check all around with 2 players having up to 6 cards giving them a 2 pair. If I had, say KQJT and face a c-bet of $1.50 I would call even without the flush draw, but that's maybe bad. I see the big pot out there and think that I don't need great odds.

So, maybe a c-bet of $3.50. Still, I think flush draws will shove and versus them we may be ahead if they don't have any pair. If we're flipping a call will be very +ev. Seems to me that we have enough odds for playing for stacks even if we run into 88's or KK's sometimes. But you're probably right, I just haven't understood it yet.

We must also consider that it's plo10. I see people doing crazy stuff in big pots. When I 3-bet someone in plo5 I'm expecting to be x-raised if we're HU, that's how common it is, and a lot of times their hands aren't that good. This also happens multiway.

JadeLizard 7 years, 11 months ago

Well two each their own but if you are behind any unpaired Kxxx hand its hard to merit a big cbet into a board you will be 100% be outplayed. They will put you AAxx and if they have spade blockers (you hold no spades and all spade broadways are live) they have even further help in playing their hand correct. On this board this hand is a "flipping or f*cked hand" and you need +40% equity to stack of given the SPR. The odds arent really that good, if it were say 3/4 pot bet left then its a snap jam. As of your time to act on the flop you have invested 15bb and want to jam the remaining 85 in a scenario when your lucky to be flipping and in a multiway pot its reasonable that someone actually hit this flop.

Sure a cbet might be ok given somewhat standard villains but as soon as they raise or call you will hate life. Low stakes are very read dependent, some might jam QQxx no redraw but overall without reads I havent found people to play for stacks without a good made hand.

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