Help me with an IP Turn Raising Range
Posted by sted9000
Posted by
sted9000
posted in
Mid Stakes
Help me with an IP Turn Raising Range
BN: $241.20 (Hero)
SB: $563.36
BB: $607.15
UTG: $115.20
HJ: $494.16
CO: $240.50
SB: $563.36
BB: $607.15
UTG: $115.20
HJ: $494.16
CO: $240.50
Preflop
($3.00)
(6 Players)
Hero was dealt
T
Q
Q
6
UTG folds, HJ folds, CO raises to $7, Hero calls $7, SB folds, BB folds
UTG folds, HJ folds, CO raises to $7, Hero calls $7, SB folds, BB folds
Flop
($17.00)
2
T
4
(2 Players)
CO bets $12,
Hero calls $12
Turn
($41.00)
2
T
4
Q
(2 Players)
CO bets $30,
Hero calls $30
River
($101.00)
2
T
4
Q
7
(2 Players)
CO bets $71.92,
Hero raises to $192.20, and is all in,
CO folds
Final Pot
Hero
wins $242.04
Flop standard. Right.
Turn I wanted to raise sooooooo badly (for protection and value), but couldn't do it because I am never never bluffing in this spot and I think my opponent realizes this (so he will play pretty perfectly).
I think the problem is that stacks in this spot (meaning, facing turn cbet in srp between 100bb and 130bb deep), with a range (not just this hand) I am sort of handcuffed (small raise lets him call w/ good draws, jamming is a big jam, flatting allows him to realized all of his equity).
Option A= clickback (implies that I can raise fold the weaker parts of my range because of the price I am getting)
Option B= $82 (I don't like this size because he will never jam as bluff and still can play pretty well (call w/ his wraps). And there are not that many hand that I want to put in that much money and fold).
Option C= Jam (He is calling with only the strongest value hands, I get him to fold his equity a lot)
Option D= Flat (Only one card that does not bring str8, which I will be guessing on for the most part)
What to do? How should I go about thinking about this problem?
Thanks
Ted
Loading 9 Comments...
Some general thoughts:
Not raising your best hands because you don't see yourself bluffing in that spot is not a valid reason not to raise. For example, you'd certainly bet the nuts when checked to in a 4-way pot, even if you're never bluffing there and everyone knows it.
Sometimes your range is strong, and you don't have to pretend that it isn't. In extreme cases your range is so strong that you can bet everything (like shoving every hand in your 4-betting range on flops where your range crushes Villain's 4B calling range).
And if bluffing too little becomes a problem, bluff some more. You don't have to think of bluffs as pure air and argue that you can't bluff because you don't have any. As a starting point, raise your best hands together with some of your weakest, then call with hands that play best as calling hands.
Note that on a drawy board your calling range will improve on lots of rivers, so it's not like you're telling Villain you can never have it after a call, even if you raise all your best hands. The river card will change lots of things.
You should have some weak hands to bluff after peeling that dry flop. The best hands not quite good enough to call again are good candidates for bluffing. Just size it so it will be clear what to do when 3-bet.
The first thing I would look at here is the turn SPR. It is 5.4, meaning that for stacks to go in by the river one of you needs to raise either the turn or the river. Stacks are actually excellent for a bluff raise, because you can raise to something like $95, and yet leverage your whole stack with the threat of a river shove. So you would be risking $95 to win $71 which is a nice price for a bluff.
The second thing I would look at is the board texture, and how it interacts with his CO opening range. Give him a 40% CO open, and he is not going to have something that can continue against a raise very often at all. He will have hands like AJT6, QJ84, JJT8, KK73 etc, all of which can certainly be barreling but have a very hard time continuing against a raise. Realising this, I'd say you want to raise this turn card fairly often. You wrote that he opens 29% from the CO. It doesn't really change things all that much. With tighter ranges he ends up having overpair+straight draw more often, and stronger made hands (more often sets instead of two pair) but he is still not going to have a strong hand here all that often.
The third thing I would consider is the opponent tendencies. He is cbetting a fair bit and you think he's also barreling the turn a lot. Well, that's another reason that I'd want to raise the flop or turn very often. Simply because... maybe he'll 2-barrel as often as 50%, and only around 20% of the time he will have two pair or better. And he's not going to have strong draws very often at all. So his barreling range is weak, and this obviously needs to be exploited ;-)
Only after that would I look at my own cards and consider my options. Hands like QQ,QT,TT seem like obvious candidates for a raise. If you're getting a little bit frisky you can also raise T4,Q4. As for semi-bluffs you can raise KJTx, JT9x, AKJx, KJ9x etc... you get the point. Actually any hand that is slightly too weak to call, or hands that are strong enough but have no showdown value.
It doesn't really put you in a bad spot when you get shoved on. It's going to suck, yes, but you'll just fold and move on.
I guess my main point here is that it's not so much what you have, but it's what he doesn't have and the amount of leverage pressure you can put on him with a small-ish turn raise.
From reading your response and thinking about it a little bit it is clear that I NEED a raising range here in order not to get massively exploited (not having one allows him to double barrel getting both fold equity and getting to realize his equity when called). I think I have been hesitant to widen (or even create) my range here for the fear of raising and have to fold away my equity when shoved on.
Obviously sometimes you will have to fold hands with equity, it sucks, but shouldn't hinder you from making better strategic plays.
Your first and second points are things that I need to consciously start thinking about more during hands (because they are probably very important). I think that I am good at the third (player tendencies), but obviously still lack some the strategic thinking required to take that information and apply it in the best ways.
Reads: Unknown, playing (4) 1/2 Zoom PLO and (2) 2/5 Zoom NL tables.
Hand: http://weaktight.com/5724431
Thinking: Hand is was not strong enough to flat imo (because when I flat I think he can play rivers way better than I can), and doesn't have much SD value, only has 6 nut outs and 9 more practical nut outs, and I don't think that I can bluff the river on blanks because of the board texture.
Good spot to semi-bluff (and fold to shove)?
Reasoning?
Sizing?
To me this is a pretty standard semi-bluffing spot where if you're looking to widen your raising range, this is a good hand to open things up with. If he calls you know he can't have a super strong hand and you have some good rivers you can hit. If he 3 bets you it stinks, but with these stacks you've probably put too much in to just fold to a shove. So, well done there.
Some confirmation bias perhaps, since you did hit... What was your plan if you didn't hit? Just show down? .
I would venture to guess that I am only getting shoved on by K8+ and some good 18+ out draws here.
Plan for river was to shove brick rivers as I think he will be shoving all K8+ on the turn. And checkback both board pairing rivers and club rivers.
What ya think?
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