Flop medium-strong on a board that looks bad for me

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Flop medium-strong on a board that looks bad for me

Merge, $0.50/$1 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 2 PlayersPoker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. 

SB: $103.08 (103.1 bb)Hero (BB): $106.41 (106.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Qh Qd 6h 7d

SB raises to $3, Hero raises to $9, SB calls $6

Flop: ($18) 4h 3d 2d (2 players)Hero checks, SB bets $13.50, Hero?

I'm playing heads-up trying to start a 6max table, this is one of the first hands since this guy sat down, nothing has really happened yet. I'm mostly interested in gameplan/options/adjustments in this spot. I 3bet QQds with connected side cards, get called, and flop good but not great on a board texture that's bad for my 3betting range. I check, as I would usually do with most of my range on this board...but when he bets I'm not sure of the best way to continue. I lean towards check-calling as I don't think raising accomplishes too much, but I don't know. Is there any merit to a check-raise here, and if so, what's a reasonable sizing? Do we want to have both a check-shoving and check-raising small range?

16 Comments

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CosmicTeapot 11 years, 7 months ago

Check-calling is pretty bad as we can make a million mistakes OOP on future streets with awkward SPR. Looks like a perfect spot/hand to check-jam it against an unknown. 

applehead 11 years, 7 months ago

I think x/c is a good option with no reads or dynamics. You have a strong enough hand to call any turn and you keep his weaker draws and bluffs in. By including your strong draws, nuts, sets etc to your x/c range you can also include in it some weaker hands like AAxx, KKxx with not much else. I would also want to have a polarized x/r small range especially against stab happy opponents which would include some of our strong made hands, strong draws, blockers and occasional air. 

themightyjim 11 years, 7 months ago

if villain is quite aggressive and will barrel off as a bluff when your outs hit I really like x/c'ing.  X/r is good if villain will bet a very wide range on the turn and we can get him to fold out a lot of stuff that has some equity or a lot of bd equity.  plus turns and river can get quite difficult to play with this hand as we'll have pretty poor visibility against anything that doesn't improve us.

x/r small is the worst to me as it will allow villain to continue with lots of hands that we'd rather see fold.  The value of the x/r is going to be the fold equity due to our poor visibility and weak SD value currently, and x/r'ing small is going to cost us some of that fold equity.

applehead 11 years, 7 months ago

Against opponents who will always bet this texture when checked to, we need a x/r small range so we can do it as a bluff. On this board I think the hands that the villain is bet-calling against our small x/r with good equity are rare and we don't need to worry about it that much. I guess there are some pair + gut shots or pair + open enders but I feel like most of these marginal hands are going to check back the flop anyways. 

DirtyD 11 years, 7 months ago

Thanks, that's helpful. Here's a similar spot:

Merge, $0.50/$1 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 2 PlayersPoker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $100.75 (100.8 bb)Hero (BB): $101 (101 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6s 8d Td 9h SB raises to $3, Hero raises to $9, SB calls $6

Flop: ($18) 7d 4d 9c (2 players)Hero checks, SB bets $12, Hero?

In this case we have more outs, but no showdown value, which makes me more inclined to c/r. Does this make sense?

applehead 11 years, 7 months ago

I think this board is different in that it will hit more of your 3-betting range whether it's an over pair with fd or any rundown really with or without fd. So I don't mind c-betting especially if the villain is prone to check back his weaker draws and air on this spot. X/r is fine too as you can get in very good against weaker wraps (which might just call a c-bet). You can also get an extra bet out of stab happy opponents you otherwise wouldn't. On this texture I don't think you need a x/r small range so you can just jam over any bet. 

I would like to add that with your pair of 9's you actually have decent showdown value and you're crushing most wraps with no pair or a lower pair. But I don't think that's really significant in terms of what line you should choose. You're probably still not getting any two pair or over pair with a fd to fold with a x/r. Dry over pairs aren't likely to bet anyways. So I would choose between betting and x/r'ing based on villains tendencies. If he's on the aggro side and gets it in light on these boards I like x/r. If he's more passive I would just c-bet away. 

DirtyD 11 years, 7 months ago

For some reason I forgot I had top pair as well... So in this case it looks like a clear bet-get it in or check-raise for value (or anyway, value-ish...very strong hand that is best suited to playing aggressively).

CosmicTeapot 11 years, 7 months ago

I'm really surprised at all the check-calling suggestions. We are OOP and SPR is like 4.5. This is just not a scenario that we want to try and keep in his weaker range. We have so little control on future streets and super awkward stacks. A bet-fold out of villain is a huge win for us regardless of what he has, and we are doing perfectly fine against his overall ships.

applehead 11 years, 7 months ago

I think check-jamming is really a valid option here. I just think that most opponents will bet a polarized range here of nuts and air and check back with the sort of hands we have poor visibility like pair + over cards or pair + a gut shot. I'm also worried that if we don't have a strong enough check calling range on a board like this, we end up folding too much either on the flop  or on the turn. We definitely can't have just a x/r range and a x/f range. With that said hero's particular hand could fall in either x/r or x/c range depending on opponent's betting range. 

Haru 11 years, 7 months ago

I always cbet at this spot when SPR is 4.5(>4). As played it is easy jam given that he will be/should be stabbing this board often.  


applehead 11 years, 7 months ago

If you cbet this texture as a default, opponents can exploit you easily by raising with a decent frequency. You're just not going to make enough hands to bet-jam. If you only cbet with strong hands that's exploitable too. So I like checking as a default against good opponents. 

Haru 11 years, 7 months ago

sry for the confusion. I mean i always cbet with overs+fd at this board. If he is attacking this board a lot. c/r is also an option.


DirtyD 11 years, 7 months ago

What do you guys do with a dry overpair on 432? Check-call once and make decisions on later streets? Check-fold? Against a weak-straightforward opponent bet-folding seems fine, but against a tough opponent I think that is asking for trouble.

applehead 11 years, 7 months ago

I think one of the best benefits of creating a balanced x/c range on a board like 234 is that we can include some of our dry over pairs in it, especially aces which is going to have good equity against opponent's range but sucks to bet-fold. We just have to make sure our x/c range includes strong made hands so that we won't allow our opponent to relentlessly barrel us of from our hand every time. 

midori 11 years, 7 months ago

While my default play would be to bet/gii with this hand, I think x/c is still fine, and would prefer that to x/r vs. someone competent.  Problem with x/r is that you kind of turn your hand face up (overpair + FD), as your 3betting range shouldn't have hit this board otherwise.

As others have mentioned ITT, if you x/c this hand you will protect other dry overpairs in your range as well.  Yes, we won't like too many turns and will be sorta bluff catching, but imo that's okay as long as he's willing to rep a stronger range and keep barreling you often enough.

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