Facing a lead 4-way w tp and open ender on flush draw flop

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Facing a lead 4-way w tp and open ender on flush draw flop

Blinds: $0.02/$0.05 (6 Players) BN: $5.64
SB: $40.33
BB: $7.11
UTG: $3.83
MP: $6.71 (Hero)
CO: $4.88
Preflop ($0.07) Hero is MP with 8 7 J T
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.17, CO calls $0.17, BN folds, SB calls $0.15, BB calls $0.12
Flop ($0.68) 5 J 6
SB bets $0.65, BB folds, Hero calls $0.65, CO folds
SB is 27/24/11 with 12 lead bets over 1000 hands.
I think I called because it was a lead bet. Those used to (and still may) get me mad. I'm working on it. At least I've come to the point that I don't call them donk bets anymore.
Turn ($1.98) 5 J 6 T
SB bets $1.90, Hero folds

-Just wanna check with you guys if this is a clear fold on the flop, right?
-as played we still fold the turn?
-when can we call with an open ender on a flush draw flop without a flush draw ourselves? I can see it as ok in BB vs SB

Thanks

5 Comments

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JimmyGlass 7 years, 10 months ago

Just wanna check with you guys if this is a clear fold on the flop,
right?

my idea is that when we are getting lead into 3ppl by tight opponent, we likely not to have 33% here vs range, + we have to worry about 2 more players left to act. maybe, if we have a read that SB leads only made hands, but never draws or vice-versa than we might justify calling, but I don't think such read is often a case, so I mostly fold.

Ibra Cadabra 7 years, 10 months ago

SB's stats indicate that he's some sort of a reg and therefore I think he isn't supposed to connect with this flop very often. On the other hand, he leads into three people on a very dynamic board, which appears very strong. I think his most likely holdings are topset, nfd combos (like JBBB, AJ87, maybe even AA, AKJ6, and so on), and maybe some b/f hands like 8765 or 9865 or something, myb even like a J with sidecards that isn't good enough to c/c, although that might be a bit of a stretch. Having one player behind you left to act isn't ideal. You do have position if it goes HU though, and also enough money behind to play two more streets of poker, which benefits the player with position. All in all, I think it's close whether to peel the flop or not. Personally I think I'd call, but maybe I shouldn't. The turn benefits SB's (perceived) range - but actually improves your hand a lot - and it stands to reason that he'll bet 100% of his flop betting range. As played, and with SPR of 3, I think you can go ahead and stick the rest of your stack in, expecting to sometimes be in bad shape against topset and JT + diamonds, and to be a favorite or get him to fold otherwise.

texasflood2 7 years, 9 months ago

Hey Ibra. I put a very similar range that you said. And hero has 52% of equity against villain's range OTT. At the same I agree with you about the flop, I think we should't call. Against the same range hero has 37% of equity and doesn't close the action. At the same time, a lot of cards will be poor and hero needs to fold. And "good" cards like a T will be tough to play. So I think otf is fold and ott is raise gii.

Villain's range IMO: $fi20!$3b2o:((AddJ,JJ,8765,987,874,AAdd,Add87,AKJ6))

plolearnerguy 7 years, 9 months ago

Six nut outs on the flop and everything else being very tainted I think you can pass getting 2:1. The turn is an interesting decision. He really shouldn't be semi bluffing on the flop into four people, although maybe some mega draws like A874 w/ nut diamonds are conceivable. On the turn I can see J6 and J5 firing again for protection. But set is quite likely at this point as well so it is a tough spot for sure.

Definitely try to work to acknowledge your emotions and not allow them to control your game. Your decisions must be dictated by the cold machinations of poker logic not your simian instincts. I advise 'The Mental Game of Poker' for more on this subject.

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