deep. 3way. 3b pot. checing back small flush OTR.
Posted by JimmyGlass
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JimmyGlass
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Low Stakes
deep. 3way. 3b pot. checing back small flush OTR.
HJ: $65.08
CO: $70.17 (Hero)
BN: $33.27
SB: $67.38
BB: $49.82
UTG raises to $1.75, HJ folds, Hero raises to $5, BN calls $5, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls $3.25
complex spot for me on each street.
here are some stats and reads on UTG. 93\66 over 340hands. turn aggr 56%, bet OOP vs missedCBet = 68%.
river c/f 4\5. almost always uses pot button.
BU 36\27,wtsd 30. 350hands.
3bet is def loose, but could be fine vs particular villain. my hand plays badly in multyway - so trying to iso utg.
otf. I kind of confused of BU overcall. I know lag-ish players use to do so w\ rundowns, double-paired hands, but it doesn't give much info. we have decent hand.FE unknown.bet-calling looks bad (especially deeper that 100bb vs utg)
ott. I consider BU is mostly done w\ the hand. and HU vs utg, my outs: T, any diamond, K, most of the time 9,Q and 7.
river. it looks like clear valuebet. but, 1. I'm afraid of c/r (we still have 100bb effective); 2. don't know what sizing to choose and see quite narrow range of worse hands he could call with. even smaller flushes he should bet, only some sets\two pair left to c/c for utg...
any thoughts on any street?
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Checking flop is fine. Decent hand and gii with so many dominated draws would be horrible.
Turn I'm jamming given reads on UTG. No reason for btn to check any decent draw/ value hand on the flop and if he has a hand similiar to ours with an A or higher diamonds like bare NFD / weak pair + NFD he probably folds those to a jam which is great for us.
River I agree that it's pretty thin given his preflop stats and his bet OOP vs missed cb stat. If we do VB though I think something like 1/3 pot
How come you want to check flop when they check and represent weaknes, but shove turn when they bet and are showing strength? Not sure I agree or disagree.
I like the way Hero played it.
thats relative strength actually, as knowing utg doesn't use any other sizing but Pot - his bet doesn't mean too much.if we think BU is done w\ hand and UTG able to fold buttom2 or tp+kikkers, pair+str8 draw, etc. - its ok-ish shove ott, I guess
at the same time its a bit spew as we're deep.anyway, I wasn't considering shove, but now think I had to.
I usually just bet the flop. obviously calling vs btn given that he is not full stack and fold vs UTG comfortably. However, given that you have such a valuable reads on UTG, this hand is well played IMO. perfect hand to chk otf and get more value from bluff by UTG. shoving the turn does not achieve anything. I would bet 15ish otr and fold to a raise. chking is fine vs aggro but not in this case.
Bet/folding this hand vs described villain (UTG) would be a waste of equity. I think flop checking back is fine.
River looks like a clear value bet to me, as I just think we have the best hand a lot. Players like this will bet more often than not with their rivered flush, and he can still find a call with 2p or set. You have Q and 9 blockers so QT9 wrap is less likely too. I'd bet 20ish and expect to get looked up by worse a lot, but on rare occasions where he x/r we probably have to fold.
When I say "I usually just bet the flop", that is what i would do readless. I did say that this hand is well played vs described villain (except that I would bet the river). Sorry for confusion.
River seems like a value bet to me. While he doesn't have many worse flushes(though with his preflop stats he has more than most common vpips), I feel like he's very unlikely to fold any 2pr/set/straight combinations to us if we bet river, simply b/c we don't rep many flushes after checking back flop (we almost always b/ca good fd's w/ a little backup).
I don't think you have to worry to much about a x/r because a) villain should expect our calling range to be wider than our betting range, thus betting becomes better than x/r'ing, and b) it's a river card where we don't rep many strong value combos that want to value bet vs a check.
What would you guys do if this was headsup? All I'm thinking when I see this flop is 'TP+flushdraw+gutshot, 3bet pot = INSTASHIP'. Is that wrong?
I don't think that would make a huge difference. The main issue is that it's so easy to get it in way way behind on this flop, whereas you're never really that far ahead if at all. That's one of the difficulties with 3-bet pots. As soon as you put a bet in here you're kinda committed to call off a raise since you may have the equity and pot odds for it, but you may end up doing so as a significant dog. Putting in the majority of your stack as a significant dog is a fairly certain way to lose money in PLO.
That confuses me. In so much pro videos I see spots were the trainer says 'I've got a pair and a gutter here in a 3bet pot I'm obv getting it in.'
Weak pair, non-nut gutter, non-nut flush draw and an SPR of ~4. Bad combination of circumstances to bet and face a check-raise. Don't think it matters if it happens on or off video.
Phil has a somewhat similar spot in his latest vid: http://www.runitonce.com/plo/phil63/
Around 8 minutes in he opens OTB, flats a 3B 3-way and flops a flush. Discussion of bet sizing for various hand types for this scenario follows.
Havent read all the response so not sure ifthat have been said.
Pre: 3betting is the only play imo. We dont want to let people overcall after we flat his raise.
Flop: I think checking back is fine. Vs a range that wants to stick it in on the flop we very well might be behind.
Turn: I think raising only isolates ourself vs. The strong part of his range and we fold out all his bluffs(weakish 765x stuff)
River I think is a clear b/f we are never getting c/r bluffed here but i cant see him folding twopair vs a 1/2 or even 1/3 pot bet.
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