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called Preflop 4bet = True.

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called Preflop 4bet = True.

decided to play a bit w\ HM's filters and as I dont use to do it often, started with the most simple ones as aces in 3bet pot and THIS
HM found 72samples over 66k hands were hero calls 4bet (surprisingly small sample) I'' trying not to call any Axxx or KKxx, or double-paired hands that I 3beted and not calling shortstacks much. calling mostly rundowns

still, results are kind of not satisfactory. Net won =-235$ (50\50 plo 25 and plo 50), ev = - 155$. blue line = 0, nonSD winnings =-250$
i dont play zoom tables, and trying to stick to 100bb game

will be thankful if one could answer:
a) are any articles\or any kind of info on calling\folding vs 4bets
b) what graph for the filter should look like
c) what are examples of filters, that would be useful for finding leaks

thank in advance

3 Comments

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Tom Coldwell 11 years, 11 months ago
Obviously it's not ideal that you're finding yourself losing money in a spot, but it's important to remember that losing in these pots isn't necessarily indicative of a leak. When you fold, you lose somewhere in the region of 10bbs in every hand (which works out as 500BB/100). Your objective when calling isn't to achieve an overall profit from the start of the hand (though that'd be nice), but rather to do better than folding.

If we assume money lost for these hands is equally distributed, that means you're down about 627bbs over 72 hands, an average of just 8.7bbs per hand (435BB/100) which is clearly better than folding would have been. EV adjusted, you are only down 5.74bbs per hand (287BB/100) which is better still. Therefore, my first conclusion would be that this leak isn't as big as you originally might have feared. Good news :)

As for calling 4-bets in general, I noted in my vid topics thread that I'm considering doing a math-based video to show the types of hands you should be calling/folding and currently looking to gage interest in that. I'll take it you'd be happy to see something along those lines (would provide both info on hands that are callable and the skill-set to check specific hands for yourself).
ZenFish 11 years, 11 months ago
Part 3 From the PLO From Scratch series does math that shows how various hands play in 4B pot vs AA (EV from the start of the hand if we know the raiser has AA):

http://en.donkr.com/Articles/plo-from-scratch---part-3-219
http://en.donkr.com/Articles/plo-from-scratch---appendix-to-part-3--567

Part 6 goes into more detail about calling 4-bets with various types of hands against known AA:

http://en.donkr.com/Articles/plo-from-scratch---part-6-627

Losing money in hands where you call a 4-bet doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't call, since HEM counts the losses from the beginning of the hand, not from the decision of calling. You could be losing on the hand overall, but would be losing more if you folded to the 4B (whether or not that's the case depends on your hand type, but rundowns play well in 4B pot).

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