Attacking paired boards in a balanced way.
Posted by DonoDrapero
Posted by
DonoDrapero
posted in
High Stakes
Attacking paired boards in a balanced way.
HU. BTN opens, we 3bet (lets say we 3bet the top 20%). Flop comes down XXY. Say both players are equally likely to end up with trips here and that's 20% of the time.
I'm trying to come up with something that could remotely try to resemble a GTO line for both sides. Since our range will contain a lot more high overpairs, assuming a non-wet board our opponent will for the most part have a {trips+,air} range and we have {trips+,overpair,air}. I guess our sizing should be pot, because we would like to include as many bluffs as possible while maintaining optimal bluffing frequency (so 1/3 of bluffs preferably those with some backdoors, 2/3 overpairs+trips). As we are up against a {trips+,air} range we don't need a check-raise range. Check-call some trips and stronger overpairs, check-fold the bluffs (which I assume should be less than 50% of our checking range).
I realize this is simplifying things to the extreme as it is not taking into account stack sizes, flop raises and future streets. I also imagine you can create a fairly balanced checking strategy. Or one where you bet a smaller sizing, but include a check raising range. However I'm wondering if you see any glaring flaws in what I come up with. Obviously I won't create a GTO strategy, but I'm more interested in improving my ability to create strategies that are fairly difficult to exploit regardless of how our opponent is playing. And wondering how you approach these sort of boards (hit rarely, but when you do hit hard) in general.
Also an easier scenario - this time the flop comes down 722r. The 3bettor has WAY less trips+ in his range than the caller. Does that mean he should be checking his entire range here?
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-your fold equity in this spot justifies a significantly higher cbet% than this strategy would allow, and in a 12-18bb pot, that carries substantial weight.
-having a single, fullpot, betsize on dry paired boards into a range of trips or air is difficult to justify.
-having a cbet range of 2/3 value and a chkcontinue range of >50% is going to be tough to implement without making one or both ranges vulnerable - there just arent that many strongish value (lets say KK+) combos possible.
-having a single, fullpot, betsize on dry paired boards into a range of trips or air is difficult to justify.
gus would beg to differ
'this time the flop comes down 722r. The 3bettor has WAY less trips+ in his range than the caller. Does that mean he should be checking his entire range here?'
Your range is a lot stronger than his overall in this spot. I don't know what a GTO solution here is but in a standard MSPLO/HSPLO game, checking ur entire range here would be a mistake.
Yea i stumbled into the idea that its best to check my entire range as the 3bettor on low paired boards. Horrible mistake all the way up to midstakes. No1 puts enough pressure on u on rb boards. On two tone, 90% of ppl are too passive, and 10% are too aggro.
When we dont bet w KK+ we lose value vs lower pairs...Give 2 outers a free shot that would never have bluffed anyway etc.
Besides, every1 seems to assume that just bc we have fewer trips, we should go inte cc mode w some OPs? Our range overall is stronger...and its not like caller has trips or air in which case that would make sense. Ppl overdefend weak pp still. Does any1 have any facts to back that theory up? Viewing KK+ on 772r as a bluff catcher is a mistake imo. It isnt unless we get raised. Problem is ofc that most ppl dont 3barrel bluff a lot on paired in 3b pots so no1 ever tries to get 3sts.
Lastly, coming up w a balanced strat as the 3btr will be difficult...im sure some1 more skilled than i is better suited for it.
What i can do, just for kicks...is to figure out a balanced start for the pre flop caller. Its usually easier to work your way backwards from the river. Assuming we leave a psb left otr after we raise flop, we should have 33% bluffs but more and more bluffs earlier in the hand.
Id love to hear more responses regarding this spot, it comes up all the time and I certainly don't have a great answer for it. My intuition would be to check back kk here vs tough balanced opponents, and have a small c betting range of trips and some air with backdoors. I think we basically want to take whatever line is gonna allow us to fast forward to showdown without putting a lot of money in. Your point about people defending small PP's is valid, but we can still delayed c bet the turn, even though we might be slightly less likely to get value on that street.
hi
in this specifically spots, we have to make parts of our range.
cbetting range : nuts/air/dominating hands versus villain range.
with your 20% of 3betting here.
running few simulations in odds oracle, we can see with the top 20% of hands on a flop like : 8h8dTs
we'll have a hand :
overpair : 39% of the time
trips : 9% of the time
Full or quad : 6% of the time
total of "good" hands : 54% !
in opposition we have 25% or air here ! (no pair)
the 20% represents : 42465 combos.
54%*42465=22931 combos
we want to do various things cbetting or not here.
- make value or bluff when we bet (QQ on this board is it a bluff or a value ? ^^)
- check back but not to give up on any leading on the turn made bu our opponent.
we have to make then different part of ranges (our various ranges)
- cbet/fold
- cbet/call or raise
- check/give up
- check/call a bet or delay cbet on the turn. (cc when we are Oop obv)
the sizing of our bet will tell us how many time we have to cbet with a part or another one of our total range.
if we bet pot : we have to take the pot without consideration of our equity 50% of the time.
Bet/(bet+pot) and if betting the pot => bet=pot then is 1/2 = 50%
to make our opponent indifferent to call with our cbet, he have to call the "best" 33% of his own range.
here we have to look in some few things, first of all the SPR.
cbetting QQ-AA in a 3bet pot (with some backdoors or not) with a SPR near to one is everytime ok (with KK or AA, villain would 4bet a large part of the time).
but in a deeper spot, we have to found our balance.
to take a short cut :
cbet a part of our trips and our "best" overpairs : KK-AA
checking back a part of our trips and our "worst" overpairs : JJ-QQ
=> trips with no oc's like 8765 (good part of checking back)
=> QQ with backdoors like QhQdJsx (lot of good turns)
etc...
this is a way to make a good balanced cbetting/checking range i think.
therefore, if you want to balance your ranges, you have to make a work similar to create some ranges in the range !
even so, versus a weak player we'll prefer to exploit his tendancies and in that point we cbet more "trash" hands if he folding a lot (betting pot, if he fold more than 50% we make a profit )
if he's more sticky or if he's tricky and an agressive player, we have to cbet less but with hands (part of range) with we'll not giving up no matter the turn
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