A question about odds oracle.

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A question about odds oracle.

I am trying to plug ranges to identify how often V makes a straight by the river on a board of

Th7d4h3c6c

(44, 89J, T7hh, 33, 66, A:Ahh)!(56):(44, 56:hh, 568, 89J, A:Ahh, T7, T7:hh)!(89Jhh, 77, AT7:Ahh):($MP)

Here I have written a range that calls Turn in Odds Oracle. Have I done this correctly?

($MP) is a macro for a MP range consisting of roughly 15% starting hands

My next line is supposed to show a flop call range excluding those hands that gii.

(44, 56:hh, 568, 89J, A:Ahh, T7, T7:hh)!(89Jhh, 77, AT7:Ahh):($MP)

The next addition was all those hands that call Turn again excluding hands that gii

(44, 89J, T7hh, 33, 66, A:Ahh)!(56):(44, 56:hh, 568, 89J, A:Ahh, T7, T7:hh)!(89Jhh, 77, AT7:Ahh):($MP)

Have I done this right?

Hope somebody can help.


6 Comments

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jonna102 11 years, 5 months ago

Ok, let's see...  I'm wondering what you are trying to achieve here.  Can you add a bit about that?

There are a few things I see right away:

* 89Jhh means Jh and another heart.  maybe you mean 89J:hh?

* T7,T7:hh is redundant, can be shortened as just T7

* A:Ahh is redundant, same as Ahh

So flop call range can be written as:

(44, 56:hh, 568, 89J, A:hh, T7)!(89J:hh, 77, AT7:Ahh):$MP

On the turn it looks like you want to add 33 and 66 to the calling range, and take out 56.  It can be written as:

(44, 33, 66, 89J, A:hh, T7)!(89J:hh, 77, AT7:Ahh, 56):$MP

But that's not the same as what you get with your range.

I suspect you're not quite achieving what you intend here, but I'm a bit vague on what you're actually trying to achieve.  There seems to be hands missing from these ranges (TT comes to mind) but maybe they all shove or fold?

IbexTiller 11 years, 5 months ago

Hi yeah....I actually hold TT which is why they are excluded.

89J:hh is what I wanted yes thanks

T7 - thanks for clearing that up

Ahh - also thanks. I was unsure.

I was trying to figure out how often V makes a straight on the river. I hold TT in this spot that x raised flop and bet Turn. So:

$MP - preflop

(44, 56:hh, 568, 89J, Ahh, T7)!(89J:hh, 77, AT7:Ahh):($MP) - flop call range from combo's in preflop range excluding 89J:hh, 77 and AT7:Ahh as I am assuming those hands raise flop.

Then I wanted to add hands that call turn from my flop call range. 66 is a mistake and shouldn't be there but any 33 combo's that call flop like T733 for example and again exclude hands like 56 that raise turn. So should it be:

(44, 89J, T7hh, 33, A:Ahh)!(56):(44, 56:hh, 568, 89J, A:Ahh, T7)!(89J:hh, 77, AT7:Ahh):($MP)

As in how often this: (44, 89J, T7hh, 33, A:Ahh)!(56)

makes a straight from this: (44, 56:hh, 568, 89J, A:Ahh, T7)!(89J:hh, 77, AT7:Ahh):($MP)



jonna102 11 years, 5 months ago

Ok, it sort of looks like it works.  The continuing ranges are a bit artificial though.  Villain ends up raising 1.5% on the flop and folding ~80%, then on the turn he calls ~80%.  I don't know of anyone who plays like that.  But given that these are the ranges you want to use, the process seems to work.  When I ask about villain's hands on the river I get:



nothing
13,7833%
pair
55,9883%
twopair
7,9405%
trips
3,3938%
strt.
18,8940%

IbexTiller 11 years, 5 months ago

I know the ranges aren't entirely correct and V is folding an extraordinarily amount of time but I am only just getting to grips with Oracle and my analysis was more about learning the syntax. Still though it did bring up some interesting results about where the bare NFD should be in our continuing range.

Regards folding 80% on the flop and then calling 80% though. That just means V continues to call the turn with 80% of the hands he called flop with right? Or do you mean he is playing very passive?


arukidinme 11 years, 5 months ago

unless you write a range for the flop like you did for $MP you can not write it out this way.  The best would be to write a $FC for the flop range :(44, 56:hh, 568, 89J, Ahh, T7)!(89J:hh, 77, AT7:Ahh):($MP)


Than you can write your turn question (44, 89J, T7hh, 33, A:Ahh)!(56)$FC


Also you can probably cheat a little with looking at the hand numbers on the far right of the ranges to get an idea of continuation frequency.



IbexTiller 11 years, 5 months ago

Doing it your way is exactly the same as I've written it and I get the same results ;)

Also, the problem with looking at the numbers for continuation frequency is that it doesn't take into account pair+ etc whereas a lot of bare pairs would fold. That method would be fine for a board like K72r where the only draws are back door combo's that comprise only a small portion of a continuing range.

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