5/10/25 Bottom Set 3-way 400+bb deep
Posted by Daniel Weinman
Posted by
Daniel Weinman
posted in
High Stakes
5/10/25 Bottom Set 3-way 400+bb deep
Game is 5/10/25 10 handed
******
V1: 5k
V2: 11k
Hero: Covers
Hero opens 2277dd to $100 from EP, V1 calls HJ, V2 raises to $300 from CO, Hero calls, V1 calls.
Flop: 2h 6c Kc
Hero checks, V1 checks, V2 bets $800, Hero calls, V1 tanks and calls.
Turn: 2h 6c Kc 9h
Hero checks, V1 checks, V2 bets $3300, Hero???
******
Both V1 and V2 play fairly loose/passive pre, and very passive postflop. V2 3bets pretty infrequently, and usually a range of good QQxx, KKxx, AAxx, and some good DS rundowns.
I don't love getting in this much potentially dead to 1 out vs V2, and V1's flop overcall takes away a decent amount of V2's nfd combos.
Both V1/V2 are stuck and opening it up a bit, but neither tilt hard.
I see some merits to all 3 actions here, but felt pretty lost in-game. Whatcha think?
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I have a feeling we're supposed to fold here, but I don't want to.
We shouldn't be worried about V1 at all, other than the great point that you made- he blocks some of V2s strong draw combos.
I really feel like we need to make this fold given the description of the villains you gave. We may be wrong sometimes, but the risk-reward scenario is off, since in our best possible case, we'd be up against 8 outs vs. KJT9 with neither FD (and even that is a stretch).
That was my feeling in game as well. It seems like when we're right, we're going to be a small favorite to a flip if V1 comes along, but obviously it's a disaster vs the bigger sets. Without doing the math, it looks like we need V2 to not have a bigger set way more than will actually be the case to make this a call/shove.
Yup. Sucks though, right? :)
I don't understand why you would play 2277dd from ep in a 10 handed game and then fold the only 2 hands you want to hit: a set of 7's or 2's.
Does polarizing your hand by just calling on the flop thats a draw heavy board change any hand ranges, given the information provided? Does aces ever make this bet or top two?
NJpoker your thought process is completely wrong, you should be posting in a lower stakes forum. Also, I don't think you know what polarizing means.
This is a pretty interesting spot. I think calling flop was probably a big mistake. We are left without a lot of information on the turn and v2 is clearly in a very profitable spot with his entire range here if we are folding bottom set. I keep going back and forth on this spot though because there's only really one hand that beats us and based on how we have played the hand up until this point it's possible that v2 makes this bet with a much wider range than we think.
Eh, calling someone as having a completely wrong thought process isn't really beneficial to anyone, unless you elaborate on why.
I keep seeing this in PLO forums, but top set in PLO isn't really one hand. It isn't one hand even in NL either. Anyway, KK is 3151 combos after the card removal effect, and given V2 3bet preflop vs UTG and an overcall in 10-handed game, we should give him a pretty tight and strong range. Give him 10% range, that's 21k hands and KK is almost 15% of them before ANY postflop action. And when he pots twice in a 3-way pot, we can narrow down his range by quite a bit.
Of course he won't always have 3bet any KK preflop, but OP said he 3bets infrequently so his 3bet might be lower than 10%. And of course we opened 7722ds UTG in this hand, which is rather loose, but villain can't know that, right? Not to mention we can mix in *some* 66/99 in his range too, although these will mostly be AA66, AA99 or stuff like that.
I think flop is fine, and turn is probably a fold. If he's ahead, he will correctly bet or check back on scare cards, and we're not even ecstatic about the board-paring river.. nor are we crazy about turning out set into a bluff on scare cards, because his range is uncapped. If he's behind, I doubt he's gonna make many mistakes on the river anyway. And I think we will already be miles behind quite often.
I have cerntainly never played 5/10/25 plo so you got me there....but i have played a good amount of HU and 6 max plo online and some live 10 handed 1/2 only tho, and have certainty folded sets in plo...like i said is 2277dd a profitable hand to play from ep(10 handed)?
Then my real question is with no draws hitting and just calling the flop on a draw heavy board and a brick on the turn....is folding bottom set the profitable play? I really don't know...
If you c/r flop and he pots then do you fold or would you call if you thought he had Ac.Ax.Xc.Xx? I would like to know from a high stakes thought process
I hope you made the right play and certainly meant no disrespect from my comment
fold pre :)
i like folding pre too.. but im horrible at PLO.. Just seems tough if we do hit(like we did) to have a runout we can barrel...
You can answer this with a fairly easy equity sim. Approximate all the combos of hands you think he 3bets pf and also barrels turn. Exclude raggedy KK include AKQ6ds type stuff and some combos of stuff you wouldn't expect him to bet like AAcc KQJT etc. because people will always surprise you. You either have enough equity or you don't.
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