50PLO zoom - AA in a bloated 3way pot out of position

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50PLO zoom - AA in a bloated 3way pot out of position

http://weaktight.com/6945421

Preflop is standard right? I wouldn't 3b weaker AA but double suited ones I do almost always.

As for the flop I wasn't sure what to do at all. If I bet I'm committed and could be in very bad shape when the money goes in so I checked. Once the button potted it I was pretty lost. I guess it's unlikely that middle position player is slowplaying something strong so I don't have to worry about him but I'm still not in great shape against buttons most likely holdings right? So I ended up folding. Is that too tight?



8 Comments

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rasmus1610 10 years, 6 months ago

I dont think it is too tight vs. 2 oop. I mean you got nothing but an overpair and a gutshot. With the nfd i would commit myself though, but since you don't have a flush draw I would also play the hand like this ;)

spassewr 10 years, 6 months ago

Spr is 1.3 right? Pre is fine, now its a snap jam even tho we dont love it

Suniram 10 years, 6 months ago

Agree. The SPR is way too low to fold. Without the gutter it's more of an interesting spot but here it's a snap-jam.
As played, once UTG+1 checks, it's still close if fold or gii vs BTN. If he shoves all his 2p, NFD, pair+fd, wrap+pair, wrap+fd, sets, TP+gutter, wrap+pair we have around 36% which is a bit less than we need I guess (esp since it's not going to be a 2way AI every time).

Additional question: If we have AA45 with no fd we x/f here rite?

anguss6757 10 years, 6 months ago

hi doncamatic


i have a question here : what do you expect 3 betting here ?


i don't say we don't have to 3bet but, we have to think moving préflop, to all possibilities.

we have also or more than others things to think/anticipate SPR on flop.

here, ok, we are 3 way but with a SPR close to 1.3 and we have OP/GS and "blockers" on Straight draws/hands who hit consistently his flop.

this flop is pretty good for your range ! less for the button's range.

preflop : Button only calls a EP raise and also calls your 3bet+UTG+1 call ! his range is a lot of thing but weakened by the preflop action.

of course he can have DP or FD but you cannot only or ever give to villains worst hands for your range.

with this SPR it's for me a clear cbet pot (due to SPR) and obviously a call versus a push.

i mean with this, you have to be quite clear with your moves and anticipate (again) what you'll do on futures streets.

else... why 3 betting ;) and obviously it's a 3bet with this monster hand :)

gl

doncamatic 10 years, 6 months ago

Thanks for all your responses. I'm a plo noob so I'm still developing a feel for how strong hands need to be to get it in. I think what I really wanted by 3betting was to get a 'safe' flop like 223 or something and just shove. But obviously more often than not I'm gonna get this kind of flop where I'm not sure what the best play is and I have to get better at these closer spots.

spassewr 10 years, 6 months ago

I had the same problem when starting out since this part of plo is so different than holdem, and it goes against the nut peddling mentality that easily beats low stakes plo.

You can do one of two things

1) dont 3b hands like this which means u never really squeeze and rarely 3b oop.

2) get better at shove eq by using the odds oracle or pokerjuice. 

themightyjim 10 years, 6 months ago

yeah this is one of those spots that some math and range analysis has shown is a snap jam, but we cringe because we know how ugly it often is when they call (ie we're either behind or dodging half the deck).

but don't forget three important things:

1) they don't always call.  you have a bit more fold equity than you might guess here, as this range certainly smacks a strong squeezing range.  Don't expect the guy in the middle to just autostack Tx with a GS and bdfd. 

2) when people do call there was so much dead money in the pot that we aren't just lighting money on fire.  Party of the value of bloating pots with strong hands like this is that people get tied to the pot when we flop strongly, the other side of that is that when we bloat pots we can't just give up on ok equity because the board looks scary.  It's ok to put worse money in after good money if the pot odds are good enough ;)

3) giving a free card is a disaster because it's rarely going to help us but it is going to allow our opponents to realize most of their equity.  Also when the free card improves our hand we're unlikely to get action from worse.

this is a common tough spot for a NLHE player to adjust to because we're not used just shoveling money into flops in spots where we hope to be flipping.  But in PLO we often times make a play knowing that often we are getting the money in flipping, and occasionally we get it in as a 65-80% (or better favorite).  got to learn to gamble it up!

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