3bet pot, checked to last to act

Posted by

Posted by posted in Low Stakes

3bet pot, checked to last to act

Merge Network $0.25/$0.50 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players - http://www.handconverter.com/hands/2056185
The DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

CO: $22.95
Hero (BTN): $74.56
SB: $53.51
BB: $50.00
UTG: $11.25
MP: $179.58

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BTN with 5h Kc Th Qc
UTG calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2.25, SB calls $2, BB raises to $9.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $7.25, SB calls $7.25

Flop: ($29.00) Qh 9c 8s (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero?

SB is a big fish playing 88/44 so far. BB is a seemingly competent reg playing 28/23 with 3bet of 12. I decided to check, since my hand is decent but not great (not thrilled about getting it in) with some backdoor potential. However, there's certainly a lot of value in taking it down with the pot this big already. I'm wondering if I should just be jamming here.

What's our overall strategy here with regard to frequencies and sizing? I'm thinking I should have a potting range of hands of hands that can get it in but don't especially want action, like the one I have, along with some very strong hands, and a more polarized range for betting small (1/4-1/3 pot) of very nutty/robust hands and some bluffs that I can fold to a re-raise.

11 Comments

Loading 11 Comments...

Viktor Luis Larsson 12 years, 2 months ago
I would be betting like ~$16 if I missed totally here. This hand certainly got equity and can pick up alot on the turn, so I would hate getting check/raised in this spot, so checking back its problably the best option. It also helps that you got position troughout the hand.

I dont think you should worry about frequencies here. People usually doesnt exploit you even if you play exploitably. So just adjust your bet sizeing on what you actually have. ~$16 if you got air, ~$24 if you got nuts and check back hands which have equity but you dont want to get check/raised off.

eldodo42 12 years, 2 months ago
I think I slightly prefer jamming over checking because our two-pair outs are murky. If our two-pair outs were clean (i.e. wouldn't complete straights) then checking is great since we can play accurately on further streets. But as things are, we don't know what our true outs are, and stand to make mistakes on further streets. Seeing as our equity is great vs AA and two-pairs, and is decent even against sets and straights, I'd be happy just sticking the money in now.

Of course, if villains play very face-up then checking and realizing our equity is probably best, since we're almost never ahead when the money goes in here, and the equity we get villains to fold when we jam probably doesn't make up for the money we lose when we're behind.
Viktor Luis Larsson 12 years, 2 months ago
Im pretty sure were doing terrible vs set and straight here. And Im sure our only true out are J. Thing is I think SB always check JT/set/twopair to the preflop raisor in hopes he cbets, and I dont think he folds set or twopair if you bet. Im not too worried about BB anymore though.

With that said, I also think if we check, SB will bet turn any hand of value like set, straight or twopair. So that makes our hand easy to play on the turn also. If checked trough again, we can surely bet turn and take it down very often.
DirtyD 12 years, 2 months ago
We have 22% vs sets...

http://www.propokertools.com/simulations/show?b=Qh+9c+8s&g=oh&h1=+5h+Kc+Th+Qc&h2=QQ%2C+99%2C+88&s=generic

and 22% vs straights also...

http://www.propokertools.com/simulations/show?b=Qh+9c+8s&g=oh&h1=+5h+Kc+Th+Qc&h2=JT&s=generic
DirtyD 12 years, 2 months ago
Conclusion of hand:

Turn: ($29.00) Qd (3 players)
SB bets $29.00, BB raises to $40.50 all in, Hero folds, SB calls $11.50

SB had Jc7cAs7h and BB had Kh8hKsQs.

SB pretty much had an airball spaz on the turn, but I guess we can expect that from a fish. It's not a bad spot for him to bluff but I don't see any need to pot. Facing a pot and re-shove, I think I can fold pretty comfortably.

What do you think of BB's flop check? Seems pretty bad to me. With a pretty strong, but vulnerable hand, I think he should just shove. Not sure what his plan was if I bet flop.
Viktor Luis Larsson 12 years, 2 months ago
Im not sure if your hinting 22% equity is alot or not.

Anyway, BB flop check is standard. Its a spot where if he bets and get raised, he cant do much but fold. Twopair on a locked down board is hard to extract value from worse, and its not vurnerable with the lack of draws. It would be different if the flop was QT9 with a flushdraw. Would be a simple cbet to me in that spot because people will have wider calling ranges.
DirtyD 12 years, 2 months ago
Not sure if 22% is a lot or a little, just putting the actual number out there so we know :)

With < 1.5pot left, I assume if BB bets he would just pot, so he's not bet-folding. I understand why this could be a check in a single-raised pot, but doesn't the very small SPR change things? And what does he do if I bet? I guess he could stack off against me if SB folds, but fold if I bet AND SB continues.
Viktor Luis Larsson 12 years, 2 months ago
Im not entirely sure of this number but if the SPR is 1.5, he needs ~33% equity to be able to get it in, and versus a straight hes doing worse then that. Also cbetting here wouldnt do much. You could commit yourself without having to and its hard to see the bet as value sinse its rarely called by worse. I wouldnt say its for protection either.

If you bet and SB continues, its pretty clear fold for BB with twopair imo. If the SPR was lower, lets say 0.5, he would only need ~25% equity to get it in and thats problably ok spot to go with it. Getting it in here is a little spewy.
eldodo42 12 years, 2 months ago
Viktor: some PPTing shows that if villains' continuing ranges (vs a pot-sized bet from us) are :JT,Q9,Q8,QQ,88,99, then BB continues around 15% of the time and SB continues around 23% of the time. This makes betting nicely +EV even with air. Considering our equity vs strong hands means that not only is betting greatly +EV, but if villains call wider then that doesn't hurt us since we have excellent equity vs pretty much any other hand. That's why, for me, 22% vs sets and straights is "decent equity" in this low-SPR case: because villains have those hands rarely enough that 22% is still very fine.

In other words, we expect to have the best equity here vs villains' ranges, and we have decent fold equity, and. in addition, playing future streets is difficult because we don;t know which outs are clean. This all points to a shove IMO.
NoobYourself 12 years, 2 months ago
As sb is 88/44 fish, bb will cbet flop if he has a strong range, so he will not c/r you, I guess Q98 is scary for him, he is mostly on overpair, AKxxds or something like that. You have a gutshot, double backdoor FD and top pair I think I like to cbet here, in order to get money from fish's random pairs or whatever, bet like 16 or 17, after you can chose to jam on a lot of turns (FD, K, Q, J) or wait for the river, you are Ip on a fish in a big pot you want some money in.
eldodo42 12 years, 2 months ago
Do we really prefer betting on the smaller side (16-17) and checking back blank turns as opposed to potting flop and shipping turn? My instinct is to jam flop as we have bad visibility for the rest of the hand but I'm not sure.

Be the first to add a comment

Runitonce.com uses cookies to give you the best experience. Learn more about our Cookie Policy