3b pot oop on KQ96 2x2fl, bluff spot OTT+OTR facing check back OTF?

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3b pot oop on KQ96 2x2fl, bluff spot OTT+OTR facing check back OTF?

SB: $8.65
BB: $26.65
UTG: $34.67 (Hero)
HJ: $43.72
CO: $43.02
BN: $37.35
HJ,SB,BB have VPIP>50 + are passive
CO notes: 3b AQQx ds, potsized ch/r 822r with undertrips, ai bare NFD 3b pot
I took these notes when CO was playing against others, had no history with him at the time of the hand
CO stats: 20/19, 3b 15, app. 100 hands at that time, but stats did not change after 250 hands
Preflop ($0.35) (6 Players)
Hero was dealt T Q 2 A
Hero raises to $0.85, HJ folds, CO raises to $2.90, BN folds, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls $2.05
I normally fold this pre oop vs a 3bet. With all the fishes gone there is no real reason to continue with a very likely dominated hand.
Flop ($6.15) Q K 9 (2 Players)
Hero checks, CO checks
Was check/folding.
Turn ($6.15) Q K 9 6 (2 Players)
Hero bets $4.50, CO calls $4.50
Maybe I would bet a little bit bigger with a Straight here, so I probably should as a bluff. I wanted to make him fold bare AA.
River ($15.15) Q K 9 6 3 (2 Players)
Hero bets $9.50

This hand made me discover a leak in my game. I literally never thought about a decent player's checking back range on this board. In 3b pots I experienced the majority of reggish players at micro stakes to cbet TwoP+ and P+FD and checking behind a range consisting mostly of giving up hands.

At the time of the hand I thought villain could have spiked AA or 87 +spades and will fold this to a bet on a blank River. Later I thought villain could check back lots of TwoP + even sets. And after calling OTT he is not likely to fold on a blank River because he has too many made hands. Now I am thinking that villain could also check back his FDs, maybe P+FD/GS, because the board hits my UTG range hard. And a River bet might be profitable given he has more missed draws then. Right now I am confused... How would you play OTT+OTR?

What value sizing would you chose with JT OTT + OTR?

8 Comments

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unbuwoha 11 years, 6 months ago

I don't know what's the etiquette in the forum, but since this hand slipped out of page 1 uncommented after 2 weeks I wanted to ask if there might be some love for my post.

nurmix 11 years, 6 months ago

This is open-fold and against 3bet fold as well. As played once you decided to bet turn, you had to bet otr into blank card reping JT. Sizing is fine.

I would probably also bet into hearts or boat otr. I believe that he has AA+(spades/weak draw) or some spade draw with a pair ott most of the times. And this kind of range gotta fold on the rivers i mentioned




jonna102 11 years, 6 months ago

The open UTG is loose but not crazy loose.  The main issue with it is that from the class of hands ace-big-big-small, this is a below average hand.  When the flop comes high cards you really want to nail that flop when you're UTG.  This hand will flop a few too many gutters or pair+gutter for it to be very exciting.  You can still open it in some games (especially passive ones), but don't expect it to be one of your biggest money makers.  Facing the 3-bet you should be folding though.

As played I think you should bet both turn and river.  Turn sizing is fine and river sizing is fine too.  

All hands that can call a river bet *should* have bet the flop.  However, you never know with these players given the passive nature of these games.  They show up with the weirdest slow played hands sometimes.  If you do run into a slow played hand here, then make a player note and adapt for next time.

unbuwoha 11 years, 6 months ago
"All hands that can call a river bet *should* have bet the flop." - What about bare 2P or bottom (maybe middle) set? Would you bet them ip in villains shoes or take a free card and go from there?


unbuwoha 11 years, 6 months ago
It feels like I think very different than you in this spot and maybe I
am way off. However, if I would check behind 2P/set and I think villain
is able to bluff OTT+OTR because he mainly puts me on AA+spades,
wouldn't 2 blanks be perfect for a calldown? It balances the times we
had to fold unimproved draws that we checked behind, too. I would be
more worried to call when hearts or spades hits OTR and villain is still
betting on cards that should improve us sometimes.


jonna102 11 years, 6 months ago

Yeah, you don't want to get into that mindset, it leads to the dark side of PLO.  Essentially by checking back the flop, the CO has capped his range and is therefore at the mercy of the opponent.  Now there are several different lines that Hero can take in this hand, but all the CO can really do is just hang on and hope his hand is good for bluff catching two big bets, or a turn or river check-raise.  Against a good player, more often than not he's not going to be good, and will be losing money.

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