2 preflop spots

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Posted by posted in Low Stakes

2 preflop spots

CO: $18.06
BN: $33.96 (Hero)
SB: $23.89
BB: $33.21
UTG: $9.16
HJ: $17.77
Preflop ($0.35) (6 Players)
Hero was dealt 4 5 8 7
UTG raises to $0.85, HJ calls $0.85, CO raises to $3.75, Hero folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls $2.90, HJ folds
good spot to cold call 3bet?

all players are passive open raises si 56\8 3better - 67\14
==============

2. dont wanna make extra thread, but would be thankful if one answers:
the spot is - UTG solid reg 24\17, raises 3bb, we are HJ with JJT7ss. other players - one TAGish (BN or CO) and rest loose-passive.
what's best\most common option here?

14 Comments

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jonna102 11 years, 11 months ago
Ok...

1. I think it's fine although not a fist pump spot. Your hand can hit some flops sometimes, but possibly not quite enough for the price you're paying preflop. There may be reverse implied odds on some flops too.

2. Fold.
Aleksandra ZenFish 11 years, 11 months ago
Why would u fold for 3 bb jonna>?
jonna102 11 years, 11 months ago
Because JJT7ss doesn't play all that well against a solid UTG opening range. If someone squeezes behind you it's even worse.

It's somewhat playable, I'll admit that, but you have to be a pretty strong hand reader to make it profitable. You'll flop a lot of marginal hands, and you will need to make good value bets and good folds.
Aleksandra ZenFish 11 years, 11 months ago
my calculation for it goes like this approx~ u flop set 1 in 10~ so 9 times u oay 3 bb minus 27 bb and once you hit you win umm lets say not every time you hit but every second time you hit you get a stackoff by utg~ makes it~ 2 x 27 54 minus~ 1 x 100 plus ~ avarage 46 bb plus not to add at all times you hit str8 or flush, and if squeezed can just fold
jonna102 11 years, 11 months ago
Unfortunately it doesn't quite work out like that. I think there's an old saying for NLHE that when you hit your set you want to be able to expect to win 20 times your preflop bet/call. So if you call for 3 bb then you want to win 60 bb when you hit your set.

Not sure how this works for PLO where sets are less valuable in general. If the UTG is solid then you're not going to get him to stack off unless he's got decent equity against a set. So even when you hit your set it's not going to be all that profitable.

Unless you have other ways to make it profitable, by stealing and bluffing etc. But that's quite difficult usually.
Tom Coldwell 11 years, 11 months ago
This isn't Hold'Em Aleksandra, we don't have the crushing equity you are hoping for when we flop our sets. Sure, now and again it comes J73 and they have 77, but usually it's like KJ8 two tone and we get it in versus AQT w/ a flush draw or w/e and it's a flip. I didn't see this hand originally and actually think it's closer than Jonna does (I might play this if I thought no one would 3-bet), but it's not a spot where I'll be making a ton of money, certainly not as much as you're hoping for.
Aleksandra ZenFish 11 years, 11 months ago
well im not sure to do correct math , but my feeling is that playing this hand by simple call see flop realise equity, fold most of the time but when hit, can hit str8 set flush, im not saying you gonna get a stack of on a set and allin value every time, but with careful play of such hand in general, being very nitty if not flopped awesome, in long run such hand would gain profit, im aware sets dont have exact same value as in NL if board is drawy and UTG has broadway cards, but make up for such situations is times you do hit str8 or flush, so tho i cant do exact math i have feeling is still profitable to play such hand ( of course if person has disciplines to insta fold it 10 times on flop)
lofigr 11 years, 11 months ago
When I don't know whether 8754dd is stronger than 8743dd - that could be really good indicator to me of the strength of the first hand.
Tom Coldwell 11 years, 11 months ago
This hand doesn't play that well multi-way and, should we call the odds are this will be 4-ways to the flop. I think this would be a pretty bad call had you made it so well played.

Would be closer if we were double-suited.
the3shells 11 years, 11 months ago
In the first hand, I call--but only because we think everyone is passive. My plan is to fold if one of somebody 4-bets--if not, I'll be expecting a CO 3-bet to have big pairs most of the time. And since Villain will only have pretty much one more PSB on the flop, I'll call or shove on low cards or if I hit 2-pair, fold if A or K comes out and he shoves, and sweat (and probably fold, ultimately) if the flop is stuff cards in the 9-to-Q range.

The second hand is, for me, a pretty easy fold. Because, as Jonna points out, I am not in good shape against an UTG open, I'm not going to be happy if somebody 3-bets behind me, and even in the best case--where nobody 3-bets and I flop a set--I'm going to be nervous anyway in the pretty frequent cases where the flop has a broadway card or two.
jonna102 11 years, 11 months ago
Cmon you can't call 15 bb's and then fold to a 4-bet. That's even worse ;-)

That low rundown probably actually does better in a multiway 4-bet pot than if it's HU.

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