Out Now
×

10/20 deep, middlesett on turn in a tough spot.

Posted by

Posted by posted in High Stakes

10/20 deep, middlesett on turn in a tough spot.

BN: $4604.87
SB: $4163.80
BB: $7460.83 (Hero)
UTG: $2933.20
HJ: $1684
CO: $6887.80
Preflop ($30.00) (6 Players)
Hero was dealt 9 4 9 A
UTG folds, HJ folds, CO raises to $80, BN folds, SB folds, Hero calls $60
Flop ($170.00) 5 9 A (2 Players)
Hero checks, CO bets $140, Hero raises to $480, CO raises to $920, Hero calls $440
Turn ($2150.00) 5 9 A T (2 Players)
Hero checks, CO bets $2031

Hi guys! Just wanted some input in a hand

FI is a high everything, not rly any spots where he is polarized.


How would u play this?



17 Comments

Loading 17 Comments...

GameTheory 10 years, 11 months ago

What does your flop x/r range look like? How wide is his preflop range?

Even with the A blocker and a blank river, you are in a bad spot OOP.

Without the A blocker your raise becomes very bad if you try to play GTO.

lofigr 10 years, 11 months ago

I am low stakes player, but I would like to comment and ask some questions here cause I would like to learn how players on these stakes think...

@Leo

OTF

Do you think c/r-ing with amt<>FPS  >>  c/r-ing with amt = FPS?

Who reraises c/r OTF with draw(s) from your experience (if anyone)? 

I would personally play like Villain here holding AA not having club draw.... Even with 55 after opponent's c/r I would be very worried and would NEVER reraise then opponent's c/r.

@GT

Even with the A blocker and a blank river, you are in a bad spot OOP.

Does this mean that (in your opinion) from GTO stand point c/r-ing AI turn card Ten of Diamonds (due to flop play) is incorrect in this very hand even when having A blocker?

If answer on previous Q is: Y (having in mind your quoted comment AND flop play ofc)- does it mean that check/folding turn is best move? // maybe this Q is not good enough if mistake in play occured on earlier street...

Thanks.




GameTheory 10 years, 11 months ago

Does this mean that (in your opinion) from GTO stand point c/r-ing AI
turn card Ten of Diamonds (due to flop play) is incorrect in this very
hand even when having A blocker?

Against combodraws we want to shove the turn. But against AA shoving the turn is terrible. In general getting 340bb in with 1 out when your opponent has an uncapped range is very bad. He will likely play AA like this always, when you allow him to get stacks in by raising the flop you set yourself up to get stacked with a significant frequency (the tighter his CO range, the higher this frequency becomes), so you must make up a lot by way of charging draws/air. Without the A blocker this is almost certainly bad since the A blocks 2/3 of his AA combos.



John Beauprez 10 years, 11 months ago

Agree that without the A blocker I hate the flop play. Only thing I really have to add here is that I would almost never take the line you chose from the start, change my mind and then consider folding when the opponent is doing what i want him to do. This is what you wanted, right? For him to put more money in bc over set is so unlikely?

Panthea 10 years, 11 months ago

I guess when he 3 bets flop he has easily 66% AA in his 3 betting range, so I wouldn't mind a fold unless we plan to bluff/semibluff clubs.

Vs an unpolarized range I would this deep rather call flop and ckr flush completing turns. Ofc if only he tends to bet a flush completing turn around 50% of the time. If he barrels some two pair and weak flushes, I like this line.


qrlwx 10 years, 11 months ago

Imo he'll take the same line with any blocker+fd hand otf and check behind the times he missed the flop - we're a 2:1 favorite against a hand like AdQcTc7d. Taking into account he'll take the same line the times he has it, with 2,1:1 effective odds (imo the flop reshove covers his whole range), the 2b otf is pretty questionable.

Sean Hew 10 years, 10 months ago

Is everyone really that scared of him having AAxx? We have a blocker so there is 1 combo of AA. There are way more combos of FD+SD, bottom set, even top two that just might play somewhat similiar. 


I think it also important to note that he probably discounts us having AAxx here as we didn't 3bet pre. I could see a thinking player playing his draws ultra aggro in this spot as he knows that his range is uncapped and ours is pretty likely to be capped at what we have. 


As played, I think I am ok shipping it on the turn. Only 1 combo of hands beat us and he can still have a bunch of combo draws that we would like to charge. 

midori 10 years, 10 months ago

I keep seeing this "only 1 combo" argument all the time, which is just not true.  In PLO AA is not 1 combo, because he has 2 other cards.  It can be up to a few thousand combos.  And when he 3bets flop, it makes a big portion of his range.

gael67 10 years, 10 months ago

Imo the fact that we did not 3 bet pre OOP with these deep satcks does not mean our hand is capped. We could have aces.

What is our plan when we call the last raise on the flop? how would we play the turn idfthe board pairs or if it is a club, or if it is a brick? Not easy. 

My choice is either fold or jam on the flop.

Peter Jennings 10 years, 10 months ago

I'm undecided as of yet on the best option here but I think one important thing to note is that it's unlikely IP has a really strong draw to 3bet the flop since most of those gain more by seeing a turn in position with a deeper SPR whereas weaker draws gain more by taking the pot down on the flop. 

Subsequently, this would make me feel more like peeling the turn as there are fewer rivers I'm that concerned about.  And as GT stated, villain shuts down with his AA on 6/7/8/club rivers.


nwo 10 years, 9 months ago

If this hand was posted by a small stakes player, the thread would get no discussion at all and be mocked. How people here are even mentioning fold, is like wtf, no one folds this hand on a table, but for some reason, everyone is folding it in a forum thread. 

Tom Coldwell 10 years, 9 months ago
If a small-stakes player put 300bbs in w/ a non-nut hand/a hand without an equity edge over the nut hand, I would pretty much categorically tell them it was an error. Those games are SO passive that it'd be nearly impossible to get that much in against a worse hand here.


nwo 10 years, 9 months ago

My point was more about a unknown player/poster starting this thread, do you really believe any 10-20 player folds here?



Tom Coldwell 10 years, 9 months ago
Not familiar w/ game dynamics and ranges at 10/20 so I don't have a clue. The fact there is a debate here between players, some of whom play that big means I suspect some do, yes.


Ben Middleton 10 years, 9 months ago

Obv this spot is kinda villain dependant but If villain is a reasonable 10/20 reg then I can see him taking AKJ2, A5**, AKK* and attacking ur range.  Getting it in vs AA** obv sucks but If there is a value hand to take this line with other than AA, A99* is the next best.  I'm not sure shoving is definitely better than flatting but I'm not a huge fan of flatting given how well villain gets to play river.  I don't think we're getting bluffed often OTR due to his showdown/value heavy range but there is some chance we allow him to hit some equity which is a disaster.  If villain has 2 outs that's a lot considering the potsize OTT.

Be the first to add a comment

Runitonce.com uses cookies to give you the best experience. Learn more about our Cookie Policy