1-2-5 Live PLO bottom set on flop

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1-2-5 Live PLO bottom set on flop

6 handed
SB (350$)
BB(750$)
UTG(600$)
HJ(600$)
CO(1700$)
Button (Hero) 500$

Limps around to me on the button with 2445 DS, I open to 25$ and everyone on table calls.
pot(150$)Flop 4c6sQh
Checks around hero bets 80$.
SB fold BB raises to 210$ folds back to hero.


BB tight reg, I have been opening 80% of buttons, 3 betting 50% of buttons. Have not seen villain 3bet pre. 4 hours into the table. My CB% is 75%, I think he has been observant and noticed how many pots I have been taking down otf after preflop aggression.
Is B/F too passive/exploitable in this spot?

My thinking is that I block alot of combo draws he could have, and call preflop with. Also I feel like a potsized bet is not necessary to make me fold my missed cb's.

7 Comments

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Jason Ring 12 years, 1 month ago
So you decide to raise pre with this hand then hit a set and bet/fold the flop? Doesn't seem like a very profitable play. He also didn't pot it.

I think its an easy bet/get it in after you decide to raise pre. You also have a gutshot and at least 1 bdfd in the cases somebody has higher set
TJ Serdar 12 years, 1 month ago
Pre is pretty terrible. I would fold here almost 100% unless my PFR's were getting flops short handed. This hand just plays awfully multi way.

As played, you have a set+gs+bdfd w/ an SPR of 3 and an aggressive image. How is this anything but a bet/snap call.
nutinsider 12 years, 1 month ago
Hey guys, for some reason him check raising seems absurdly strong, I mean, hes not just check raising you, hes check raising with the whole table behind him. (since they all called pre and all check after the flop). If his hand is strong enough to take that line, then it seems strong enough to beat Joes hand.

I understand the logic of "hey you raise with this hand, hit a set, how can you fold here with these stacks??"

I dunno, I just think the WORST he has in this spot is 66 or maybe even a loose defend with 5723 or 5789, 3578 type wrap? ds? Tough but seems like his hand is just so strong in this spot so much of the time. The fact that its a rainbow board makes his raise even stronger. I agree with overbet that raising pre is prolly not the best line to take, what I dont udnerstand is if you decide to raise pre, why not full pot?

It would be really great if someone would input the villains range (sets and wraps?) and see how it plays vs your bottom set, gutter, and runner runner flush).

The fact that hes solid tight and observant changes stuff a LITTLE, but I don't think its enough to justify getting it in.

I play similar live games as you, Joe.

Eager to hear other views as well as responses.
Joe Monge 12 years, 1 month ago
As for pre, it is spew in regular game I agree, however I am only player who has 3b pre and utg/hj have been limp folding to basically any aggression. If I would have known 5 callers would have for sure folded pre.

As played what does pot bet do as opposed to 80? Folds out hands I have great equity against and nearly commits me on this board, or loses me an extra 70. Seems like I compound the pre raise if I pot/get it in here? But I could have this all wrong, just the logic I used
nutinsider 12 years, 1 month ago
For some reason I just feel that it's better to be committed when you hit a set with your hand rather than be put in awkward spots, and if you pot it pre and your hand hits, the decision making process gets a little easier. But I just think that flatting accomplishes the same as 25, where as if you make it full pot, you might get some fold outs and play a heads up or 3 way pot in position? Mind reading a few of my posts and sharing your thoughts?

Also you state "if i knew 5 would have called pre I would have folded" But in my opinion it seems that you are incentivizing them to call with that small of a raise, whereas a full pot bet is a bit more likely to result in some folds?

*note* I just started playing PLO, so my opinion is.....lol =)
ZenFish 12 years, 1 month ago
nutinsider: The concept that you should build the pot pre to make postflop play easy when you hit does not apply to garbage hands. These hands rarely hit, and when they do hit, you almost never flop the nuts, and when you do flop the nuts you are almost always vulnerable. The best you can hope for with garbage hands is to pick up the blinds, but that won't happen often either in live games (or so they say).
cAp217 12 years, 1 month ago
Preflop you got into a tricky spot. Now you hit the flop as good as you can with this hand and you have to bet fold in position. So lets just get past the preflop play and now focus on flop play.

When its checked to you on this board and you bet bottom set, what hands will call and what hands can raise? Its pretty easy to see what hands can raise unless villian would do this with AAxx and think he is playing it tricky preflop (and this is possible). But most likely QQ and 66 are the hands that raise. I think 357x hands will call OOP unless their stack sizes are small and they can just get it in or figure they are going to have to call a turn bet so why not take a shot at a semi-bluff and take it down here.

Villian is a tight reg that didnt 3 bet the whole day. He may play AA this way but that doesnt make up for the times you will be drawing dead. I also dont see him raising a straight draw hand here either and I dont see him even showing up with those cards anyways. I expect 6678 6689 type hands or big QQJT type hands.

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