Looking for a Push/Fold chart for 6-Max Super Turbo Sit-n-Go's.
Posted by NoHubris
Hey guys,
I'm quite new to the Sit-n-Go scene, and I've been having trouble finding a push/fold chart for 6-Max super turbo sit-n-go's. So far, the only useful information I found is this, and I'm not sure it totally applies to 6-Max SnGs.
The SupTurbo SnGs have $300 starting stacks and 3 minute blinds (starting at $30 blinds). I would therefore need a chart containing the ranges for shoving and calling in each position, for stacks from 10bb to 5bb at the very least, and if possible, a chart with stacks from 20bbs to 5bbs, once again by position.
I know I'm asking for a lot, so any help is very much appreciated, even if you can just point me in the right direction.
Thanks again,
-nH
If I can get my hands on such a chart, I plan on making a little summer project/challenge, to see if the SuperTurbo SnGs on Full Tilt are beatable using just a push/fold chart... To be continued?
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Do them in nash calculator, assign each blind level to all seats and stacks and get results and paste them inexcell chart
http://www.holdemresources.net/h/web-calculators/nashicm.html
i never played syperturbos so donna push fold for it
Great, I completely forgot about those calculators.
How can I interpret the results?
IE: How do I know the ranges in each position for this input? The ranges seem to be dispersed, and I,m not sure how to read them... I might be missing something.
How do I adjust for different situations? Do I have to manually input every different situation, since this shows the ranges for every player (I think)?
You can manually recheck specific situations, but in general can input 20,15,10 and 5 bb without ante and with ante for each position and take it as a guideline
SO if u have 20 bb and co is shoving 5 bb u chk inputs for 5 bb and call from that sheet input
I can send u if ya want my 9 seats sheets so u can see how i made them, but they re for normal and turbo 9 seater, i never played super turbos
I think that would be useful, if you don't mind :).
I just figured out how to read each range they give you, I just had to fill up my stomach before trying.
example for ur game 10 bb no ante
http://www.holdemresources.net/h/web-calculators/nashicm/results.html?action=calculate&bb=30&sb=15&ante=0&structure=0.5%2C0.3%2C0.2&s1=300&s2=300&s3=300&s4=300&s5=300&s6=300&s7=&s8=&s9=&s10=
just redo lets say 15 bb 5 bb 20 bb no ante and then redo all with ante
Let's have a dialog in this thread, and well go over push/folding, and how we can learn it with out 'charts'. Charts will slow your progress.
lolz :)
Here's what i want to say. The push fold game seems simple but its not. Its just a public myth that since it is 'solved' that there isn't much room for strategy. This is pure misconception. Push/fold comes with assumptions, and if we don't understand these assumptions, we will get crushed by those that do and we will also likely crush ourselves by creating religious misunderstandings about the game.
An example is, I often get players that ask me about creating calling ranges. But they must first understand that in order to understand calling in the push fold game we must understand pushing (otherwise how might evaluate our opponents pushing strategy?). And in order to understand pushing, one must understand calling (otherwise how can one adjust their own pushing range?).
So we understand that somethings cannot be learned and understood in their parts.
And so we need to understand that we cannot understand push/call if we don't also understand the minraise/fold/3bet game. We MUST learn these things in relation to each other, or we will not be able to build a proper construct of understanding.
I agree. When I said I was new to the SnG scene, I meant that I've played a couple thousand SnG across all stakes and I'm break even in those games. I wasn't looking for a chart so that I could jump in the games and expect to crush.
The main goal behind this thread was to find concrete examples of some of the charts out there. I had difficulty finding them on my own, so I asked for help.
I want to use those charts to get a better understanding of short stack play, and maybe identify some leaks in my games (which I am sure there are plenty).
I have some time these days, and would enjoy some dialog on the subject. I have 100k games of 180mttsng turbos (or so), so maybe I can give you some ideas you might not yet have thought of or heard. Sounds like that is really what you are looking for.
I would suggest that the only charts you should have are the nash ranges for each stack size. Basically it would help if one could memorize the nash ranges, and then make on the fly adjustments to them.
I always cringe when players make their 'own' shove charts (or worse use someone else's), because you start to taint your understanding of the game if you don't base everything off the equillibriums.
It is very nice player to be thoughtful and thinking of ways to improve his game, but, first he has to memorize nash, backwards and with eyes close and in sleep, understand it, and then make adjustment based on game and on the fly, based mostly on many aside of game mathematical exercises that person has to do to develope experienced feeling assumptions on the fly, for us , not mathematically skilled and talented :) feeling develops with hard work :)
For game Nohubris asked about , i must add, push fold applies only, i woldnt say much more there is to it, since on 300 chips we really aint gonna involve 3 bet fold options, and, as advice, i would strongly suggest no hubris memorize charts for all stacks and all positions, practice it a lil, then start working on his game aside of tables, and with thinking :)) which can never be bad, but in cases when someone doesn't know the basics, and has no super talent to feel it, maybe can be misleading and untimely
Like driving a car, staying on the road is rule 1, and can add some style to that, but gotta stay on the damn road :)
I mostly agree AB, however there is an issue! Sometimes we thinking we are blindly (and happily) following nash shove ranges, but there comes many times where shoving is not the best play (maybe bvb vs a spewy play we might min raise AA instead of shove!). And when we do this if we don't understand minraise/3bet game, then we unknowingly open up or shove game for exploitation (as well as our min game). So if we try to learn this in parts we make actually be doing ourselves a huge diservice!
Yes, totally need to include lot of diversity and as well deviations from a range at certain times, but, he needs to know nash first :)). that given to no hubris is advice to a cash game player i think :) peeking at sngoes he needs to get started somewhere
Its true, yet if we try to build a house of cards, we must start at the begining, but it cannot be with the first single card. Because it will not stand up on its own. Only in relation to the 2nd card will the very begining foundation stand on its own!
O yea damn complication
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