How much rake is too high?

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How much rake is too high?

Hey RIO crew,

I play at Crown Casino in Melbourne. I usually play $1/$3 with a $200 buy in.

Recently they introduced a jackpot system where if you flop a royal flush, you'll get $25,000+

Because of this, they have raised the rake to 10% capped at $15. This to me sounds extremely high. The competition at crown is quite soft but I am not sure if this game is even beatable anymore.

Anyone got a clue?

Thanks

18 Comments

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GameTheory 9 years, 8 months ago

If the added rake goes for 100% into the bad beat jackpot the EV of playing hasn't changed. But you do need a much larger bankroll because you are going to have swings of the magnitude $25,000.

Tutor 9 years, 8 months ago

The extra rake is probably not 100% going into the jacpot but I would assume most of it would be.

Also, I forgot to mention that theres a $5 once off charge when you sit down but I dont think this is much of an issue.

Daylife2015 9 years, 8 months ago

15 is out of line to high in a game with 200 cap, but how much of the 15 is going into the jack pot? (if u ask they should be able to tell you) most jack pots I know of in the states are $1 per hand with over 20 -40 dollar in the pot. the rake itself (at least in the casinos where I am) is a 10% max of 4 or 5 dollars. in some part of the country it is much higher. Also does the jackpot make u want to play royal hands that then puts u in a lot of marginial spots? if so long term that could be significant negative ev. that is my 2 cents

Tutor 9 years, 8 months ago

I definitely don't change my play because of the jackpot. It used to be 10% capped at $12 and they increased it to $15 with the introduction of the jackpot so my guess is that the answer is $3.

sponsor 8 years, 8 months ago

I think it depends on how loose and deep the game is on average, if the max buyin(pretty nitty for a live game) is 100bb, i wouldnt even consider playing, as each called allin would cost 7.5bb.

If you are interested what is too high, i would consider all-in equity minus 7.5 bb a decent answer over a decent sample.

giotto51 8 years, 8 months ago

I think u are missing something... I play at Crown in Perth, and here the commission is 10% capped at $15 as well but no jackpot. I usually play 2-5 and on an all in for 100bb is 3bb rake not 7.5bb. Playing 1/3 it s 5bb...
this rake is definitely high but here the level is so soft....so soft...

nav77 8 years, 7 months ago

Barcelona in Spain has a nlh 1/3 game that has a 5% rake capped at 10 euros. Meaning it is similar (but looser) than an online nlh100 game (with no rakeback). When allin and winning, one isn't paying 30 (5%) or 60 (10%) as rake but 10 (cap) or 15 (cap), and so one should buy in max and preferably play when there is much money at the table. I wouldn't play with a 10% rake though, but I don't need to figure out if it can be beaten.

wonka 8 years, 7 months ago

don't be fooled by crappy promotions!!!!

the value of 25k paid out to someone flopping a royal is about 3.5cents per player per hand when you see a flop.

(36 combos of royal flush starting combos out of 1326 total combos, and 19600 unique flop combos = about a 1 in 722,000 chance of flopping a royal.)

that's a little < 3.5cents per player per flop seen, so a maximum of 35 cents/hand dealt in total table value.

daonna 8 years, 6 months ago

I also play at Crown Melbourne. The $1-$2 game has an insane rake (10%, capped at $20, + a $5 one time seat charge). It also has a low max buy-in ($100).
Despite this the game is very loose on Friday/Saturday nights and it is beatable. It's become a bit of an income top-up for me, but these are the only nights I'll play there. Coming away with an average of c$150 after playing for 6-8 hours is ok by me even though most people would scoff at playing for what amounts to around $20ph. You really need to play patient ABC against the typical Friday night player and it can be a bit of a slog. It keeps me away from more -EV gambling though and it suits me.
During the week the game is apparently reg infested with an occasional cashed up gambler to pique the table's interest but on the 1/2 & 1/3 tables I can imagine it would be v hard to beat the rake in that scenario, although the few times I've played during the week I got the impression that the regs weren't of a great standard.
I've heard that Star City in Sydney is a bit better regarding rake.

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