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Further observations and questions

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Posted by posted in Live Poker

Further observations and questions

 A)  9handed NLHE, I feel as if my isolation raises
are simply not effective. The main issues when isolating in position

UTG limp, UTG+1 or UTG+2 limps behind to trap with {TT+
AK}

The blinds wake up with a premium holding. In
straddled pots you have 3 players to get through.

Multiway pots means that plenty of your marginal
hands will have reverse implied odds. Jack high flushes or worse will be
dominated. Top pair with weak kickers, either you have to fold out better
kickers OR check but allow free cards to multiple opponents.

B) I often revert to playing tighter but at the same time I feel
like I’m giving up some opportunities to outplay opponents postflop (by simply
folding my hand preflop)

Even when I play tight, my image is that of a loose, bluff
happy player

Some ego driven players play back at me randomly and
spastically but it’s difficult to play back at them without a hand of sorts. I’m
hesitant to over-extend myself in spots since they get very stubborn. I don’t want to end up being a fish myself, playing too
many hands without proper justification. Its easy to begin calling with
everything and make the excuse of ‘oh, I will outplay postflop’. You can easily
bleed away stacks calling too much pre- and postflop only to fold on later
streets. 


8 Comments

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PlasticLime 11 years, 3 months ago

I am unsure what you're asking or where this thread is intended to go. That being said, this sounds like a post from someone with low confidence. Poker isn't solved and its a game of adaptation, you can't play the exact-same-way all the time when you are constantly facing different opponents. Personally live I play a completely different style than my room mate, he plays super tight and grinds out wins sometimes winning larger amounts when he is hot. I play a lot more post flop hands take more flops in position, mix up my play and even when I play tight I have the same LAG image you described. 

All this being said you just have to find your game that suits you. If isolation raises aren't working for you then only isolate with your premium holdings. I highly doubt UTG+1 or +2 is limping TT+ to trap as well as AK, that is just typically how live players play these hands. 

I agree you must be careful calling too much pre and taking too many flops, and thinking that you will simply outplay everyone because you "are better than them" is not a mindset to have. Poker for the most part is a well known game for anyone who is sitting down. Granted they may play fit or fold a lot of the time, but a lot of that time they simply are not folding marginal hands because they are level 1 thinkers. I may be way off here if you are playing in a big game, but this post I feel is relevant to 2/5 and lower. Hope this is worth something. Good Luck.

Daz 11 years, 3 months ago

From my experience, if i'm taking too many offsuit broadway combos and isolating i have too many isolating hands - i get limped raised from UTG, UTG+1 too often or run into a premium holding in the blinds, this could be because its 9handed so i have 3 extra players to get through. 

If you faced with several limpers from very straightforward players, how do you play KTo QTo JTo OTB? What about K3s or 86o?

I think you spot on when you mention low confidence. I've definitely lost confidence as my results have been quite dismal

i don't necessarily play a particular style i try whatever is neccessary to make profit. What i'm wondering is whether my adjustments are incorrect. Maybe i should be getting involved MORE - even when a tight solid approach will be okay



megatr0n 11 years, 3 months ago

Hey Daz, 

I sometimes play ½ live and I can relate exactly on how you are feeling, people are calling way too much (because they like to see flops) and the preflop raise are usually 12-13$, soo I just play tight and mostly ABC poker with hands that can stand heat . Since they are so few hands to be played per hr, I'm assuming people play more junk hands to be part of the action. 

Also the rake is huge too. for the hands you mention, I would open in LP and throw in some bluffs a few times when the fish are weak-passive in the blinds. As far as image goes, we are often labeled 'as internet geeks' so younger people are known as the ones putting more aggression. I think the way to combat that is to bet hard for value when he hit TPTK+ since people are soo call happy with worse.

For the 2/5 I feel people are playing much looser and it would definitely fit more with your style (at least in my area) as people hand read much better, so you can throw in more KTo, QJo etc.. simply put I don't think those hands play very well, and would only include them for my bluffing range.


Daz 11 years, 3 months ago

And when you OTB facing limpers? What do you do with the offsuit broadway then KTo QTo JTo? and some Axx Kxx Qxx - one high card one low card suited 

megatr0n 11 years, 3 months ago

not sure it's optimal but I'd just call and see a flop.. I would iso with these if people are believing that we have the goods some % of the time .. If I know there's a player capable of limp/reraising, im def not isoing. and if we get do get called on the iso with the Ax Kx Qx board, im mostly c-beting if I sense weakness then give up.. or c/f if sensing strength

ibey33 10 years, 10 months ago

Those are mostly just limp begin hands otb raising multiple limpers usually need like 99+ kqo + imo u party much said it. I these games ppl limp to call raises so bloating pots a like k10 77 76s and what not gets expensive am u would be surprised how often ppl limp aq /jj/tt and stuff in ep in smaller full ring live

As for limp rr if don't been think about it. Just play your std raises and have a fold button and then lol when someone limp/rr 66 and u actually have smth


sleepyguy 10 years, 10 months ago

I've only played 200NL live and in my experience like barely 60% are regs and a lot bad (usually older gents) regs at that.  Most aren't even thinking about about ranges at all and just play their cards.  My tips are definitely SUPER exploitable but in LIVE 200NL who cares... barely anyone is even thinking that much.  I've been quite successfully even with the absurd rake... although I haven't played in few years due to family/work responsibilities.

Live 9-10 handed FR 200NL

1. no one is squeezing light so go ahead and call ANY Ax suited hands from any position.  I do the same in late position with 910s+ and higher card single suited gappers as well.  Get in cheap as possible with multiway... more the merrier :)

2. make your bluffs/semi-bluffs cheap, i find though experimenting that if they don't like their hand they don't like their hand... 1/2 pot on flop is same as full pot for 90%, even 1/4 pot if villain is a super rec.  1/2 pot turn does it like 90% of time for them to fold.  No one is floating ever.  I basically use AEJones rule of thumb for flop and turn play.  Generally for dry boards.

- A/K low low, good for one and done

- Q/J/10 low low, good for 2 barrel if turn doesn't pair and better if turn card is high, even better if you gain some flush/straight equity

- if i turn enough equity i'm generally always jamming the turn but if stacks are awqard, i'll go for a c/r to get the last bet in and put villain to a tough decision.

obviously this is player type dependent but overall it works pretty well.


3. play your big hand fast... no one will catch on.  Seems silly yes but i can't tell you how many times i'm late with AA KK, and the usually limp, call, call, call, call... i jack it to $65, then get back raised jammed and they show JJ QQ.

4. zero FPS, please... no one is reading into this ever.  Busted flush draw on river?  Thinking of 3/4 pot bet on the river?   That older dude is NEVER laying down his top pair middle kicker... EVER.  Just cf/fold

5. get a good seat, you can tell who are the aggressive regulars, just sit to the left of them, stay out of their way.

6. 3b range is probably weighted something like 80% to 20%, premiums vs air (decent air though).  also i'm only 3b semi competent players or players who i see ck/fold flops alot (when with air).


This probably won't fly in 2-5, but i didn't play much 2-5 live.



Daz 10 years, 9 months ago

I apologise for the poor format, even when i try edit the post to make it more reader-friendly it randomly places 'spaces' and forces sentences on different lines - i've tried to re-edit it several times but it still results in an odd format.

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