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2/5 Live: Facing donk bet holding OP in 3b pot

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2/5 Live: Facing donk bet holding OP in 3b pot

Hero's image: 20s young asian, tight aggressive image 

V1: opens very tight and calls very wide (opens premiums, good broadways etc but calls super wide in multiway pots with SC, suited 1 gappers, even K6ss and J6ss) likes to draw and is mostly passive (always calls instead of raising draws etc) Basically quite call-y

V2: very solid thinking reg who is very capable of making moves

Hero: 2000
V1: 1400
V2: 3000

Hero picks up QQ in UTG+1, opens for 20, V1 in UTG+2 flats, random flats in LP, folded around to V2 on BTN who 3b to 110. I flat the 3b OOP, not wanting to play a massive pot OOP against V who can make life difficult for me post when my hand is face up (reason in the next sentence). A large part of my decision to flat is also because I have never been seen to 4b trash among these players so I don't want to iso myself against V2's nut hands. Would definitely 4b if I had a more balanced 4b range which included other hands other than AK KK AA etc. 

V1 flats and flop comes 4d6h7h. I check, V1 donks 325 into 357 pot. V2 tanks and folds. Hero ??? Thoughts: I don't really have a good read on V1 but I don't think he would donk sets, straights or 2p given that action was likely to check to V2 who would bet, me flatting and then V1 go crazy after with those hands. I most likely range V1 on smaller OP (88-JJ??) or 7x. If such, should I ever 2b GII OTF? 

Anyway, I decided to flat. Turn Th. Hero ???

River Jc. Hero ???

Should we ever 2b GII OTF? If we put V on OPs, is there any merit to betting turn? No right? Considering we only might even get folds from 88-99, JJ OTT while valuing ourselves against straights, flushes, sets (unlikely but he might? i dunno) Also, if villain checks back turn, should we ever bet river? Bet/fold? I do not know if he checks back flushes or sets OTT. 

What's the best way to play this hand?

8 Comments

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IwinUfail 10 years, 11 months ago

Normally when he leads in this spot his range is going to be capped at overpairs and strong draws.  I would expect him to have like TT/JJ here alot based on his sizing, which is just huge. It depends if hes' bad enough to get in 300bb with JJ here?  As gross as it sounds I think you can call and evaluate based on his turn sizing, which he'll tell you a lot with.  If he bets like 500+ you're probably beat.  Especially on the Jc.   I would lead some of the time here on the flop also as I wouldn't expect btn to cbet this board much and utg2 is our main target in the hand. 

Matt House 10 years, 10 months ago

I think V1 will 3bet TT+ preflop most of time. Also don't think that he donks these weak made hands (vs. the BTN Range) this big as to a BTN shove he is way way behind. Most of the time this will be combodraws. This said I would vbet the river vs 56/45(/88/99) stuff in a small sized bet.

nittyoldman 10 years, 10 months ago

imo, you've presented him to us as a call-y person, so I'm assuming he's fairly passive.  i think its perfectly fine to fold flop on this hand UNLESS you think there is a large % of the time where he will attempt to check down hands like 88-JJ after you call his flop bet.  If he is prone to call many suited connectors pre, as aforementioned, he smashes this flop.  This is not a river decision obv and as such you need to factor in the possibility of facing multiple barrels.  Are you comfortable calling this guy down on this board? I don't think you should be.  Is he aggro? No.  It seems like he's not getting out of line too much based on your description.  That coupled with this board being one of the worst for your range and best for his and he donked for pot into the 3bettor and probably most importantly, the potential for terrible turn and river spots here is HUGE.  I mean literally every card in the deck other than the offsuit Q ball is bad for you.  If you think of the EV behind the scenarios of how this hand can play out I think you can argue for folding pretty strongly.  1)you are ahead otf, but he improves and you call down incorrectly 2) you are ahead all the way but you fold incorrectly later in the hand 3) you are behind otf and call down incorrectly 4) you are behind now and fold later 5) you are ahead now and he realizes all of his equity to the river, BUT you hold up and win at showdown


so you are hoping only for scenario 5, a scenario which is likely to produce the smallest pot size 

i think it is pretty clear that given the board texture, the sum -EV of scenarios 1-4 outweigh the +EV of scenario 5

Live_your_dreams85 10 years, 2 months ago

I still like 4b pre with the stacks as deep as they are..
Im not to worried as to giving away my hand strength
we also will define there ranges more and are able to play a easier game post flop, if they decide to call..
As played call flop and fold to double barrel Jc turn with large sizing .

teamcharlie 10 years ago

Why are we not c/r jamming on the flop? V1 donks 325 and has 900$ or so behind with a $900 pot correct?

Assuming that to be the case I would suspect us to have the best hand here alot based on hand reading. I don't think V1 has KK+ based on PF action and you said that you would discount sets and 2pair.

Seems like with a 1-1 PST and an over pair a c/r has some merit without reads.

bronxsystem 10 years ago

seems pretty basic I think, raise if you think he continues with weaker pairs and flat if he doesn't

flatting pre is fine obv

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