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180-man, 15pl left (EV hand)

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180-man, 15pl left (EV hand)

UTG: reic21: $21288
UTG1: kaboul_10: $10582
LJ: tonibahia: $15662
HJ: mForceXgen: $15840
CO: Econometrist: $14204
BN: andreynho12: $14232
SB: DEJO1986 CR: $18644
BB: Kastilius: $13780
Preflop ($2400.00) (8 Players)
mForceXgen was dealt 3 3
reic21 folds, kaboul_10 folds, tonibahia folds, mForceXgen raises to $3200, Econometrist folds, andreynho12 folds, DEJO1986 CR raises to $18494, and is all in, Kastilius folds, mForceXgen calls $12490, and is all in
At this point I was putting him on any AX either suited or off-suit or KJ+ suited.
Flop ($36584.00) A 2 5 (2 Players)
Turn ($36584.00) A 2 5 7 (2 Players)
River ($36584.00) A 2 5 7 4 (2 Players)
Final Pot
DEJO1986 CR has A Q mForceXgen has 3 3 mForceXgen wins $34180

The question is - was this right play to call all-in here? I had a correct read on opponent and I am always aiming for places 1 to 3.


It is flip indeed (50-50) so basically I am given ~52% win rate against any off-suit K4+ A4+. Though, would it be profitable in long run?


~mForceXgen

6 Comments

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GameTheory 11 years, 1 month ago

I would shove this hand always. That way you put more pressure on them since they need to call for their tournament life, and also it discourages the BB from flatting when your hand plays quite bad postflop at this stackdepth.

I also don't see how you can exclude higher pairs from his range when you get shoved on less than 10bb.

Tom Coldwell 11 years, 1 month ago

I haven't played NL tournaments for ages, but when I used to grind SnGs I was shoving my entire opening range in this spot and 33 was comfortably part of that. Very few hands are excited about inducing extra action here (inc 33) and I didn't wanna telegraph my monsters by doing anything different with them (although I'd sometimes min-raise or limp AA, KK, and even QQ 'cas people were awful and didn't notice the absurd tell).

That said, I can well believe that tourny strategy has moved on a thousand miles since I last played these (and I wasn't even that good a SnG player to begin with) so you might wanna take what I say with a pinch (or a pound) of salt.


GameTheory 11 years, 1 month ago
You can still minraise wide if the players behind are too tight, it reduces variance and might give you a greater edge, for instance if they overfold to cbets. But 33 doesn't play good for a minraise. Also if there were a few 5-6bb stacks and a few deeper stacks behind, minraising a weakish hand with the intention to call vs the 5-6bb stacks for to the deeper stacks becomes a viable option.

Furthermore, minraising AA-QQ is easy to balance, since you can always find bluff hands to minraise.


Tom Coldwell 11 years, 1 month ago
Nice to hear MTT strategy really has left me far behind. Makes a lot of sense though, so thanks for expanding for me - always nice to learn :)


mForceXgen 11 years, 1 month ago

Thanks for responses, guys!


I have thought about this play a lot today and I came up with conclusion I had to either fold this hand or shove it in the first place.

As min-raise, indeed, show a great strength, he could think of it as a weak steal attempt (which I think he did and moved in with a decent hand). Pushing the threes right away would generate a better effect on his mind than did just a min-raise. You know, keep him guessing, plus, I assume I would gain extra fold equity as others would see - that guy is moving with any pair. From that we would got greater value out of monster hands too - as they would think I am moving in with any pair, but instead we got a monster. Any thoughts?


Offtopic about monsters - it depends on positioning and actions of other players. In early position I consider a call instead of min-raise or all-in as most of the players will read it as a great strength anyway and we will use value of the hand. By calling we allow to players positioned later to re-raise us, therefore, we gain extra value of hand. In most cases we also can do re-raise and about 80% of time opponents will shove with 99+ or AJ+ (especially suited). Best pay offs come of the 5-6BB players as they are realizing - I am going to be blinded out anyway and will push way worse hands than we hold AA-QQ.

computerscreen 11 years, 1 month ago

def 33 will play better as a shove here.  As played its prob fine but thin.  Your getting late game so there is some Icm consideration too.  We don't want to always shove our entire range but here especially vs randoms we want to shove our +ev hands that don't have blockers, we would rather min raise our blocker hands that we can min fold.  Hands like Axo and JTo.  Hands like A5s and JTs have a little more equity and since we have to min/call, then we should feel they play better as a shove. Def min raise the top of your range if there is no one there to exploit you (even sometimes if there is). But ya this spot is about blockers and how you play them imo.

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