Zoom 200 KJ 3b pot,top of my rangue
Posted by Magdalenasparty
Posted by
Magdalenasparty
posted in
Mid Stakes
Zoom 200 KJ 3b pot,top of my rangue
Blinds: $1.00/$2.00 (6 Players)
BN: $301.60 (Hero)
SB: $338.81
BB: $196.00
UTG: $263.46
MP: $244.82
CO: $507.91
SB: $338.81
BB: $196.00
UTG: $263.46
MP: $244.82
CO: $507.91
Preflop
($3.00)
Hero is BN with
K
J
, , , ,
Flop
($39.00)
4
Q
K
,
I check because its one of my weakest TP, and i protect Qx JJ TT 4x... (thoughts?)
Turn
($39.00)
4
Q
K
3
,
River
($100.62)
4
Q
K
3
7
,
This completes 65 and the flushes,wich i guess i dont have since i will cbet them normally,so im at the top of my rangue. Possible bluffs of him are JTs T9s ,some diamonds,maybe AJ AT. Value is KQ+ (32 combos),so i need to have him bluffing 13 combos.
What are your thoughts on it?
Thanks!!
What are your thoughts on it?
Thanks!!
Final Pot
CO wins $97.82
Rake is $2.80
Rake is $2.80
Loading 24 Comments...
Having the Jd kind of sucks but I'd still call.
Haha exactly this.
Seems totally fine to have checked back the flop with your Axcc/trash OTF that that turned good equity and got there on the river. Therefore I think we at least some % of the time have hands like A2cc, A5-A6cc, A8-AKcc, KK, 33, KQ-K5cc, QJ-Q8cc, 65cc/ss/dd, T7cc-85cc etc (depends how you construct your 3bet range preflop in this spot). Given that, and because we also would prefer bluffcatching with our Kx with club blockers first, I don't think we are at the top of our range. Also, I don't feel that villain thinks he has a ton of FE on the river, because our range is perceived as turned draws, Qx and decent TPs (and some % slowplays) after we call his large turnstab, so he may decide to cut down on his bluffs.
So it looks pretty close, much closer than I initially thought, and might be a player dependent spot where I call/fold depending on my reads, and probably would end up calling river if I was playing readless.
I like your line if you call river.
flat pre. as played river is a pretty trivial call, he can deff be bluffing w some portion of AJ/ATs/JTs/J9s/T9s/diamonds. Also we are extremely high up in our range
Call KJ when you have Kc or Jc, fold KJ with no clubs. Blocking a Jd diamond FD is an additional reason to fold.
You are not at top of your range.
Don't like the 3bet, don't like not cbetting the flop. when you have AKcc you are betting the two diamond board a fair amount. If you check it I think you need to raise turn or just fold turn, don't really like calling turn and folding river.
Not sure about that logic
flat pre and call river
ya i call prty quick otr
Shrug call, but its going to be pretty close to breakeven, Occassionaly you'll beat KT, K9 or chop with KJ along with catching AJ, AT, JT/rando bluffs.
sounds good
call river now, you can flat preflop too, no need 3bet^^
While I do tend to flat pre as others are suggesting, I think the profitability of a cold call vs. good opponents is very tiny and I would not be at all surprised if 3betting is higher EV. Postflop pretty much what everyone else said.
Never fully understood how KJo can be higher ev as a 3b than a call. My logic on this spot might be behind the times but I see how calling KJo has it's issues, but then why 3b it? Worse hands fold and yea, it's nice to have that fold equity preflop and pick up the $9 pot. And it is good for balance reasons so u don't always have ak and jj+ but I feel u isolate parts is his range that have u crushed and u can get cold 4b by blinds if u r doing this stuff too often and 4b by intial raiser. There's a lot of These off suit combos that are the top of Ur folding range (I'm assuming Ur somewhat polar). So how could 3b be more plus ev if he calls with pretty much just hands that have u beat ? Is the fold equity pre that useful? Or r u expecting a spot where will only 4b/fold and that Ur blockers and the fact that it's the top of Ur folding range make it such that it could be higher ev?
edit: double post.
Yes. Let's say calling is +0.5bb in EV (just a random estimation; it's probably lower than that against good opponents). If you 3bet and everyone folds, you win 4.5bb which is a HUGE win for you. You do have some blockers which slightly increase your fold equity, and when you're called you always have position and a playable hand. Generally the only calling hand that has you dominated is AJ, but still with position you are somewhat likely to get that hand to fold postflop.
that makes sense, altho when it works you win 4.5bb, when it doesn't and u bet 4b u lose 9bb, and when u get called, ur in a 19bb pot versus a strong range. and i think KQs calls as well btw. i tend to 3b linear, so i guess what this does is preserve the strength of the calling range
Yes you are right that it's not great when we get called (though it's not terrible either), but my point was that it's awesome when we get folds, and that outcome might make 3betting more profitable than calling. I'm not sure though; I think it's pretty close.
really depends on tendencies i think. i think linear 3betting best when guy is wide and likes to flat a lot. i guess the 'raise the top of ur folding range' is better versus guy who will fold to 3b with reasonable %
Sure, but my point is that if flatting KJo is very close to 0EV, then it's likely that 3betting is better, and it can actually fit in both linear and polarized ranges.
not so much linear range it seems, that'd be a pretty wide 3b range then
"I check because its one of my weakest TP, and i protect Qx JJ TT 4x... (thoughts?) "
"CO bets $69.52, Hero folds"
Doesn't seem like you are actually protecting the Qx, JJ, TT, 4x that you said you were. You actually need to call the river to protect those hands, otherwise it is exactly the same as having them. You call this hand so that you can feel ok about folding other bluff catchers that you listed. Otherwise you fold everything.
Great point !
Obvious piece of information was missing from the discussion.
ya.
/end thread.
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