zNL5 - 3bet pot, Bad bluff OTR?

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zNL5 - 3bet pot, Bad bluff OTR?

Blinds: $0.02/$0.05 (6 Players) BN: $4.98
SB: $23.92
BB: $5.22
UTG: $5.67
MP: $7.02
CO: $9.70 (Hero)
Preflop ($0.07) Hero is CO with Q A
UTG raises to $0.15, MP folds, Hero raises to $0.45, 3 folds, UTG calls $0.30
Flop ($0.97) 6 9 T
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.31, UTG raises to $0.62, Hero calls $0.31
Turn ($2.21) 6 9 T Q
UTG bets $1.25, Hero calls $1.25
River ($4.71) 6 9 T Q 8
UTG checks, Hero bets $4.51, UTG

Hey guys!

So, villain was probably a fish. He was playing only one table.

PF: I think 3bet is fine, specially against fish.
OTF: I chose bet small here, he probably have a wide range and we have decent BD. When he mini raise, I think I can call.
OTT: Ok, my main issue is turn.we hit TPTK, but complete some KJ draws and we're dead against sets and almost dead against 2pairs.
OTR: This card ins't good for our range, but wen he checks I want try make him fold some 2pairs hands and even sets.

What do you think, is this spewy?

8 Comments

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foShizzle 6 years, 1 month ago

Hello,

  • preflop ok, but a call is a valid option as well
  • now another topic if your info about a villain. All I can see is that he has a normal stack, he is using normal sizing and without stats/reads or anything more information (which you didn't write for us) you can't consider him like a fish, but as an unknown player.
  • what do you mean by saying: "he is probably a fish"? People are playing one table because they are learning how to play, so usually, they are playing 1 or 2 tables only. You cannot simply assume that he is a fish by this on NL2/NL5 and if you assume by default that each unk with a full stack who plays 1 table is a fish, then you are doing it wrong and you will have a lot of spots like this and you will be losing money by a bad plays over and over again
  • for me, you are just trying to justify your very bad play by saying that he is probably a fish - especially your play on the flop because a river is so bad that it's a different story
  • on the flop you have an easy check back. You are not betting for value and if you are betting with this sizing you have no fold equity and people will seem your bet as a bluff/float and generally weak on these limits. You can't force UTG to fold a better hand here. Ow sorry, maybe he will fold an AK. You are interested in keeping a pot small, your hand can improve on a turn, you have some backdoors and you have a position. I can see only reason to bet here - to buy a river on your price, but you didn't write that (instead you were just guessing that "his range is wide" without any info) as a reason. What is more, you have better hands in your range here to continue and actually, you are playing against a really TIGHT range
  • on the flop you have odds to call, but you are in a tough spot right now and you completely don't know where you are. Fold here is a good option as well because EP range here has all the sets, slowplayed monsters, hands like QJs, JTs, 87s, two pairs, FLUSHDRAWS and he has a lot of a good stuff here and maybe air if he thought that your sizing is a weakness - but that's just a guessing game and you can't guess in these spots
  • on the turn you hit your tptk, so now you are beating his air and you are beating his lower pocket pairs. If you are calling here, then you generally have to call a river. Now there are more combos of two pairs, more heavy draws and EP bets. For me, that's a fold. Without any info playing AQ in this spot as a bluff-catcher is a not so good idea
  • on the river you have an easy check back. You should be happy that villain didn't bet here, you have no value in betting and now you are turning your hand with a showdown value into a bluff. Tell me, what are you repping here with this bet? Nut flush? With a flush draw you would probably bet higher on the flop, so again you just hope that EP is a complete fish who forgot what happened.
  • as played, imo EP will never fold here any flush and he will never fold here any Jx. On the river you were just guessing again that he can fold here a set or 2p.

Sorry for being harsh, but sometimes a bucket of cold water is the best thing.

and I really hope this answer helps you.

Alison95 6 years, 1 month ago

Hey, good post!

I appreciate that. Very nice thoughts. But why I probably bet bigger with flush draw OTF? Because of this is a drawy board? and if board was more disconnected but two tone you like to bet bigger with your FD?

foShizzle 6 years, 1 month ago

Sizing is a very hard and really complex topic and I can't give you general answer in a few sentences.
But based on my experience with these limits: it depends on how do you like to play your draws, but a population tendency on NL2/NL5 is that people are cbetting flush draws in 3bet spots with sizing around 60%-70% - for sure more than a half of the pot. You generally want to play good draws aggressively and bet higher to generate a bigger fold equity.

HawksWin 6 years, 1 month ago

At first glance, KcQx or KcKx (if you have it here with this line) looks like a better combo to make this play with. He will have some AQ and 2 pair that will fold in this scenario. I think AQ is potentially a hand you want him to have here since it is a snap fold to a shove. The other thing is, is that you block king high straights with KQ and unblock it with AQ, so there are less combos he can call with but I am not sure this is relevant enough to choose shoving vs. just showing down stuff like KQ and AQ here.

HawksWin 6 years, 1 month ago

To be honest, I think checking back flop is probably the best move here. The Q is just such a trouble card to hit on turn, you are really only "somewhat" comfortable spiking an A here.

Jbarez 6 years, 1 month ago

Flop is almost 100% checkback with this combo, you have some equity like nut backdoor fd but... your hand is too weak to call even against minraise. You can obviously point that recreational player usually has wide range but vs cbet 33% on this board your fold equity is almost nonexistant.

On river turning it into bluff makes completely no sense. His sizing on turn is kinda weak so its likely you have best hand, also I wouldnt expect that recreational is capable there to lay down hands as strong as set.

belrio42 6 years, 1 month ago

It's hard to say whether this bluff is good or not, unless we know your ranges on each street. Bluffing with any particular hand can be ok, but we should have a general idea of how much we're bluffing, compared to how many value bets we have.

In this case, bluffing with Ac in our hand isn't a bad idea (we block the nut flush), but again, would need to know your ranges to make an intelligent comment.

In general, I would just check back river and take my showdown value. As a general heuristic, bluffing with top pair top kicker is usually not a good idea. The reason is simple: if you're bluffing with such a strong hand, you're also bluffing with many weaker ones, and that would mean you're bluffing too much.

akissv7 6 years, 1 month ago

Preflop
I like the three bet sizing. Calling is also a good option with these type of hands depending if there are many squeezers on the particular level your playing.
Flop
Why would villain have a wide range here I don't get that the villain opened UTG and called a 3 bet OOP which indicates a tight range mainly broad-way hands that might connect to the board.
Not a good flop for you and it is a wet board with 9T and two clubs. So I normally would just check back here. You bet small and villain min raises you. You get excellent odds to call the min raise but you don't have a lot of equity (no immediate draws on this draw heavy board) so folding is also an option.
If I would bet this flop then I would bet bigger (~2/3 pot) to get more folds, now almost all his hands have the odds to continue.
Turn
You flopped top pair and villain bets out n this board would just call to get to the river cheap.
River
8 of clubs so now club draws and all straight draws with a J got there. Villain checks and you decide to bluff whilst you have some SDV against a KQ type of hand. I don't think that is a good idea as what hands are you targeting.
Assuming that AA, KK, AK most of the time 3 bet and that he most of the time folds any hand weaker that 99 or T9s you only targeting T9s that might fold (I don't believe that a set will fold even on this run out on this level with opponents that don't know each other) and even then there are still a lot of combos that beat you JTs (3) and QJs (2) and KJs (4) and TJs (3) as well as KQ (1) of clubs (total of 13 combos).

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