turn play with strong draw
Posted by FaceMyAlterEgo
Posted by
FaceMyAlterEgo
posted in
Mid Stakes
turn play with strong draw
SB: $512.50
BB: $623.43
UTG: $1241.65 (Hero)
HJ: $614.17
CO: $1485.54
Hero raises to $17.50, HJ folds, CO folds, BN calls $17.50, SB folds, BB folds
Hey guys, would like to get some feedback on this hand. Villain is playing 22/17/5 over about 1500 hands which is def. on the tighter side even for zoom games. I don't have any paritcular reads given that it is zoom and you don'T watch most of the hands, but he appeared to be playing somewhat snug.
Note that I open to pot from UTG, so bu's calling range pre should be a bit tighter, most pairs up to QQ, sometimes AA/KK, AKo, AQo, some, but probably not even all suited broadways. (I personally would not call the low pairs is his spot, but I see a bunch of guys, even tighter ones, still flatting 22 vs my UTG pot open). Given this flop range, it actually seems sketchy to me to even cbet, because he may not fold any of the hands mentioned, other then KQs/KJs/QJs/QTs, maybe AQo or pairs 66 and lower. On the other hand our hand has very nice backdoors, so it cant be to bad. + if he really calls the flop this wide, he will be in a lot of trouble on turns.
On the turn is where I think it gets more interesting. It seems like the 8 connects a decent amount with both our ranges, so I am not sure if we should continue to barrel the majority of our valuerange and thus barrel this hand, or rather check most of it, x/r JT and some sets as well as some strong draws like this and some weaker ones, and x/c the rest of our range. Should we just barrel to get him of AK/AQ? Courious to what you guys think.
With KcJc I decided to go for a x/r, thinking that it would look pretty strong and expecting him to bet turn with a lot of hands. Once he 3bets, I am not too sure how to react. On the one hand, if we do not jam this hand then we will hardly ever have semi bluffs in our jamming range, but on the other hand I am not sure if we should have a jaming range at all, given that he should be extremely strong to 3bet turn here, and we have little incentive to jam a hand as strong as 88 or 65s, so that we may be better off calling our continue range?
Exploitatively I thought it unlikely that he was bluffing in the moment, but given that it is a very rare spot I am not too sure at all. Would you expect villain to give credit to my turn raise, or think that he could easily put me on a some kind of weakish bluff?
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"but I see a bunch of guys, even tighter ones, still flatting 22 vs my UTG pot open"
I don't understand how that is bad ?
I got 4500 hands (22-55), where I flat IP a raise from UTG or MP, and I win EV 8.71 BB/100.
Is is again a hoax, made-up by HS players, like pot-controling or playing GTO ?
it is bad readless on 500nl regs only table.
1. u will get oversettet.
2. forced to slowplay many bad boards cause overcall range is perceived to call.
3. makes ur overall btn range much harder to defend (as e.g. vs cbets) on many boards (not in theory but in practice).
4. u fold to cbet always, and ip stabs not +ev often, how the hell shozuld it be +ev^^
i think the same for flatting light with suited hands vs utg opens like 78s (like in ops btn callingrange) but thats not what i replied for.
(100bb deep)
Ok, thanks for the detailled answer.
If you play only 500nl regz infested tables, you must not loved the money ;) My tables are a lot easier in general.
Are people ever balanced when they B/3b here or is it always like 99+?
I get the feeling they aren't doing this with enough semi-bluffs or turning T9s/TT into a bluff, so we shouldn't worry about having semi-bluffs in our x/r/jam range with SPR this small. They basically always continue with their value range that 3bets, so we should jam the good but vulnerable portions of our value range. I don't think it really matters if we're balanced or not simply because we're not getting enough folds when we shove, so we'd max our EV better with a hand like KcJc by taking our pot odds and calling the 4bet.
He is only repping JTs here, which is three combos at most.
Your turn line makes sense with JT, so it is very unlikely that a somehat tight player shovels in 250BB with less.
Given your solid draw and JTs blocker, I like your turn line. You should often check a card that favours Villian, and by check-raising you make him fold some pairs that protection bet.
If you do bet, I think you have to overbet here to nake him fold his overpairs, pair + SD and perhaps sets by the river.
You are pretty much repping 4 combos of J10 suited in Villains eyes. Your never going to have a set here. Never doing this with an overpair either. I think Villains line is very strong. It's also hard to see him having a bluff here. 99, if not the nuts.
I prefer to just barrel the turn and hope to realize our equity. We're just not repping much.
Also, given your turn check raise, what were your plans for the river if Villain flats. Are you shoving missed clubs / straight?
I know that I rep a very narrow value range, but I should be able to have some semi bluffs, and this combo fits in nicely as it has lots of equity but no SDV.
If he had called my x/r I am not quite sure, on the one hand we probably dont have much air in our turn x/r range, but on the other I don't really like that we block a couple of clubs, which are hands that he will likely bet / call turn and fold tiver with. So maybe bluffing some QTs (other than clubs) is better.
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