TT after calling a 3bet OOP

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TT after calling a 3bet OOP

UTG1: $32.30
UTG2: $50
LJ: $50
HJ: $71.73
CO: $91.30
BN: $25.18
SB: $50.25 (Hero)
BB: $58.48
UTG: $26.25
Villain is a 14/12, 3bet vs SB 16%, fold vs 4bet 64%. WWSF 44%, AF 2.8, agg freq 39/34/19.
I don't have many hands from him so flop and turn stats would be irrelevant.
Preflop ($0.75) (9 Players)
Hero was dealt T T
UTG folds, UTG1 folds, UTG2 folds, LJ folds, HJ folds, CO folds, BN folds, Hero raises to $1.50, BB raises to $4.50, Hero calls $3
TT is usually on my 4bet/call range here, but this villain was folding too much against 4bets so at that moment I thought calling would be best. However, if I 4bet to 20bb and he shoves I need 40% of equity to call, and asuming he is shoving 5% (maybe 99+AQ+?) I should call with TT. Do you think that is a reasonable shoving range for someone like this?
Flop ($9.75) 2 5 4 (2 Players)
Hero checks, BB bets $4.75, Hero calls $4.75
Turn ($19.25) 2 5 4 7 (2 Players)
Hero checks, BB bets $12, Hero folds
Final Pot
BB wins $17.67

The flop is very bad for my range, I never have sets or straights here, as I would call preflop with some suited connectors, 88-TT, AJ, AT and some suited broadways. When bets the flop I can only continue with my flush draws and overpairs and I'm wondering what is he best way to play them? Check/call my overpairs (88-TT) and half of my flush draws, and check/shove the other half? What if the turn is a brick and he keeps betting, what would you do with 88-TT?

Or maybe the problem is preflop, maybe I should include a few combos of AA-KK so I still have strong overpairs on these boards?

Thanks!


9 Comments

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J.J. Arroyo 10 years, 11 months ago

Yep about 1/3 of his 3 betting range. Including KK + without info of.postflop tendencies and knowing he is calling tendencies against 4 bet ranges that require.and adjustment I prefer 4betting. So if depends on our preflop tendencies and adaptation our percieved range, if he is aware that you range is capped in that turn the best is to fold, if it were a.brick I might call for being drawy and bet many overcards. But.if he. Is .aware that you have many draws OTF raising for merging your pp is a good option.

Celes 10 years, 11 months ago

Hi, thanks so much for your response. So as a rule of thumb 4betting for value 1/3 of his 3betting range is ok? I had  never heard about it. I agree that raising the flop would be an interesting option as well, because he still has many draws himself which he might not fold and not so many really strong hands appart from AA-JJ or maybe A3.

J.J. Arroyo 10 years, 11 months ago

Not a rule of thumb, but aprox because if SB 3bets and is successful >68% (well depending on steal sizing) its making a profit, but thats for being somewhat unexploitable (maybe GameTheory post and slap my face by giving you wrong math) but if you have reads and can desing more EV ranges in that spot is much better for the level of that stake. With the draws you get value with your pp in he is also in a draw, being cautious with cards like that 7 and I still like betting overcards when missed.




Lewis Harkes 10 years, 11 months ago

Ok, if you trust the 16% 3b range,

1) you're well ahead PF and 2) TT is going to be tough to play OOP. if you fold overpairs to aggression, what happens when he aggresses on an AJx flop, etc). So, i prefer a 4b.

 also if you trust that 16% 3b, you're well ahead on that flop (60% equity). If that flop tends to miss your bet/call pf range (does it?), i like the flop c/r (i.e. you're near the top of your range). i think it's likely worth getting it in - from his perspective, you likely have some overpairs (with TT near the top of that range) plus nutted sets (2p?), aggressive draws and air - but on balance you're ahead of your range. otherwise, there are so many cards that crush you and he can make you make some really tough decisions (what turn cards cause you to fold to more aggression: a blank turn, a flushing turn, an overcard turn, etc).

that's my take (and i'd love some feedback on whether i'm a donkey here or if it makes sense)

MajorCrimes 10 years, 11 months ago

@Lewis, we can't really have sets and 2 pair, so TT is about the tippity top of our range.  I mean, I think in this particular case c/s OTF with 88-TT (and occasionally KK-AA) and FD+overs (like 76dd+) makes us at least a little tougher to exploit.  He's kind've looking at an inherently +EV spot on that flop though most likely.  Just lookin at it, seems like we'd need to defend by shoving or calling with AJhh type hands to not be exploited  << this is just at first glance, and I'm by no means a balance baller.

feedback on this thought process welcome.



Lewis Harkes 10 years, 11 months ago

@ MajorCrimes: yeah man, i think we agree for the most part. b/c we're at the top of our range and seem to be crushing his 16% range, i think gii is ok. i'm not sure if i c/r and gii on turn (unless a kill-card comes) or c/s. i'd need to think that through...

our range: maybe there are some sets (idk, i can see some low pairs calling pf for set value once in a while to mix it up?) and/or overcards+FDs which are flips vs. something like TT. but these are a small portion of our range...

re Td: i understand Chael's point to be twofold:

1) the part of his range that consists of FD+overs: by having the Td we remove a lot of combos, which improves us vs his range

2) the part of range w/ FD+overs: say better overpair, low flush, sets, we have more equity from redraws... (how do we construct his 16% 3bet range: is it linear vs. polarized? are there many lower SCs in there as bluffs, etc?)

 

 

Chael Sonnen 10 years, 11 months ago

His VPIP/PFR are tight, but 16% 3-bet vs BB is normal, and maybe even high at 50NL.
So I'd 4-bet and get the money in. You won't make much when you get it in, but it's better than playing a super vunlerable hand OOP.

C/r flop to get it in. Your hand needs a ton of protection, but it's very strong.
Turn is a close fold. I'd call if I had a diamond myself. The board doesn't hit Villian, but he does have a lot of overs + diamond that can barrel off here, so I'd need a bit more than TT w/o diamond to call down.

Daz 10 years, 11 months ago

But then what else would you have in your range that calls OTT then? Having a diamond isn't so great if villain is using his high diamoninds to semi-bluff himself

Rapha Nogueira 10 years, 11 months ago

16% 3betting is consist on A7o+, 33+, KTs, you are 60/40 against his range. If he 5b jams, he needs to decrease his continuing frequency by 2/3 to TT be behind of his range and bvb I doubt it. As played, check shove flop is std, you may face some AdQd and you are flipping. 

Letting his 3b range be that high, you let him get away on this draw heavy boards without realizing your equity at all. Having a diamond doesn't have that much difference because his 3betting range is broadway heavy and you make dominated flushes very often. 

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