triplebarrel vs capped range
Posted by Jownz
Posted by
Jownz
posted in
Mid Stakes
triplebarrel vs capped range
Blinds: $2.00/$4.00 (7 Players)
BB: $400.00
UTG: $409.01
UTG+1: $423.75
MP: $394.00
CO: $406.00
BN: $424.29 (Hero)
SB: $160.00
UTG: $409.01
UTG+1: $423.75
MP: $394.00
CO: $406.00
BN: $424.29 (Hero)
SB: $160.00
Preflop
($6.00)
Hero is BN with
8
A
, , ,
Flop
($24.00)
5
6
3
, ,
Turn
($58.38)
5
6
3
7
, ,
River
($142.00)
5
6
3
7
K
, ,
Final Pot
BN
lost and shows high card Ace.
SB wins and shows a pair of Sixes.
SB wins $321.20
Rake is $2.80
SB wins and shows a pair of Sixes.
SB wins $321.20
Rake is $2.80
villian is badreg as you can see on results
Not sure if it is good bluff here w two spades but otherwise I dont expect him to have a ton of SC here calling from SB so that blocker might be irrelevant.
He has never ever a 4 but I can have a ton of 4x and I jam all my Kx+
What do u think of that ?
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I would also expect him to shove turn with most of his good hands, so this seems to be a good bluffing spot on the K river at first. Seems like a classic nuts+air vs bluffcatchers situation, question is how bluffcatch-happy he is.
I'm not sure about valuebetting with Kx though, probably it's fine because we don't expect to be beaten often. Anyways, I think you will have a lot of 98, 4x, sets, but still more than enough possible bluffs on the river, so his bluffcatch is not unreasonable.
I am not familiar at all with his sb cc range, but he should have a really narrow range OTR after this turn if he's a reg, which means it is very played dependant if someone will overcall, or overfold.
With these said, If i wouldn't want to overbluff, I would start by not bluffing with Asxs.
My Image is solid. I dont care tbh about how bluffcatch heavy he is. I think I just have to bet this combo in this situation. I mean he tanked like almost 30 sec, so that showed me he might fold here from time to time. It wasnt like a snapcall where I might change a bit my bluff freq.
Not sure if I can agree with I am overbluffing this spot, since I have like K4o,A4o,34s-48s,Q4s,89o,twopairs and some non zero % of Kxss combos I will play 100% like this
So I am not sure if I will pick up too many bluffs there. I mean if I were bluffing here w A8o then it might a spot where I am overbluffing
What's the reason of posting this hand, if you're convinced that you played it perfectly?
You should care about how bluffcatch happy he is though, because that affects the EV of bluffing, and thin vbetting. If you don't know about his bluffcatching tendencies you should try to bluff the right frequency. You can easily find out in crev, or equilab what hands are best for bluffing.
can you elaborate more about your image?
Hi,
I'm not playin those limits, but i theorytically struggle with weak SD and bluffcatchin regions. So i could tell bullshit but i'm open to debate.
For the hand, i think the play is fine imo, with this turn and blockernuts river. But the action is good maybe not the reason.
Maybe...
U bet too much with those fuckin hands: "i'll making fold what i beat and gettin call by better."
1) How often i should bet my draws proportionally to my made hands?
2) How often i'm gonna hit my draws propotionally to my frequency?
I think u often check one street here with some madehands for bluffcatch. Because it's better to be vs his bettin range (w/+bluffs) than his callin range. Exemple :88-TT? If not, i think u are not maximising ur EV with some hands.
OTT: Hands like QQ- could checkback to call river, if not, u often checkback/shutdown on K river. So Vilain will expect u shutdown some made hands on one street.
So ur 3 barrel range for value is not that wide.
1) optimal bluff frequency, u must try to arrive river with a perfect balance range.
alpha x Value hands = bluffs hands
alpha = 50% when PSB so 2/3 value and 1/3 bluffs
So if u arrive river with more than 1/3 of missdraws, u gonna have too much bluffs in ur 3barrel range or u must checkback/fold with some of them which it sucks...
If u open 600 combos on BTN, u could see than u gonna hit at least one made hands +/-32% (cfr crev). it gives 14% only for backdoorFD+overcards. So i think in general bettin more than 55% could suck.
So we are agree that if u add some AK and gutshot or straight draw, u have too much draws but with decent equity.
2) Even if u have a decent equity overall, how often u gonna realise it by only 3 barrelin?
I'm struggle to see if it's correct to say that if i have an overall equity with my draws = X% and that my proportion of draws is > X% than it's a kind of autosuicide.
I've should better to split some of those hands in some other ranges to keep some % draws < X%
Like checkback, checkraise, bet which is gonna involve +/- the same amount than 3 barrel. but not generate the same FE.
or u could simply checkbackdown coz u have some SD.
So i think here is the play is good because of the turns out. Otherwise in general, bettin too much for protection ur weak SD value hands instead to try to have the cheapest SD and turn medium hands into bad bluffs is not the right play.
GL
What is bad about his call down? Maybe he thinks You wont value bet thinly enough when there are 4 to a straight on board, and if he believes that, his reasoning for calling is legit. you block 89 which is great and there is nothing wrong about your play, but you can exploit a station by underbluffing river.
test
a few things: 1, I'm not sure about your flop bet strat as it seems ur polar and sb ranges are unique as they contain a lot of QJo KJo T9s A8s Q9s type hands that all miss this board. Its a lot of hands that aren't strong enuf to 3bet but aren't weak enuf to 3bet either. He cud 3bet hands like 54s 64s 75s but won't call them as they are too weak. Therefore, he misses this board a lot and will have trouble defending enuf versus a 30-50% pot bet. He will be forced to float a lot of Q9s type hands or KJ high and that leaves him vulnerable to double barrels just due to his range construction pre flop (thats why sb calling ranges are tough to play). So if you bet instead like $9-12, i think this would be better.
Regardless, on turn, I think given ur larger and more polar sizing, his calling range is now stronger and i think A8s is clearest bluff you have.
On river, I'm not sure, how good/bad it is is dependent on assumptions a lot. if he is bad reg, a lot of them might think 'oh if i call turn, i gotta call blank rivers.' but if he is a guy who jams all his good hands on turn, and on river doesn't realize how weak his range is now and will fold weakish bluffcatchers thinking they aren't strong enuf to call on this scary board, then it works great.
From a GTO perspective, id say having the 8s and As is fairly bad bc having As blocks his lighter flop floats and lighter turn calls (A2ss, A8ss A9ss, ATss, A5ss,A3ss, T8ss, as well as 87s and 88). It does block 98 but still is bad blocker.
Idk maybe you are right mate but not bluffing this combo seems like waste.
I will make an sim by crev and will show if this is good or not.
I did post this hand to get some thought from other good player as I think most ppl here are. Sure I could be wrong w my bluff but after asked a few good regs like zaza I am very convinced this must be a clear bluff.
It is this situation like he has often smth like 99,A5s,A6s(which he didnt wanted to 3bet) and or he was slowplaying QQ+ which is almost never happen. So he is here very capped and I cant do very wrong by betting alot.
I am pretty sure he hasnt 4x here and I should do merge betting
I made fast sim. Not sure if I put ranges right, I am not working that long with crev.
I gave him a realistic range which I think most ppl in the pool are playing.
22-77, sometimes slowplays w overpairs( but rlly i rarely see that but sometimes ppl call here w99) QTs,JTs,T9s,ATo,A9o,A7s-ATs,KQ,KJ and very few 67s,89s
Seems like my flop cbet shows profit.
But the turnbet seems -ev I am loosing there 7bbs. I cant see through that since I have Flushdraw+3outs for A. I must did smth wrong w sim^^
Really cant understand why this is bad bet.
Dunno, I would have guessed that turn bet is more EV than flop bet. Maybe because it doesnt help your overall range that much and you have to cut on thin valuebets OTT and therefore bluff less.
You can't find out the EV of flop cb that easily.. It might be that EV if the turn is exactly what it is, and likely it is +EV anyways, but to be precise you would need to make a tree without exact turn, river card to find that out. It isn't worth the time though.
The turn part is probably minusEV, because in the sim you have 0% FE, and he even raises 30% of the times.
"You can't find out the EV of flop cb that easily.. It might be that EV if the turn is exactly what it is, and likely it is +EV anyways, but to be precise you would need to make a tree without exact turn, river card to find that out. It isn't worth the time though."
How can I make a tree without exact turn and river card ?
Either you don't choose turn and river card, or make different scenario to all type of turn, river cards. Both are too complex in most situations to worth the time, unless it is a common spot which you are not sure of.
You can group together turns and rivers, but you have to include every turn and river, otherwise the three doesn't run.
It's extremely time consuming but you learn a lot
Do u have link that show me how ?
I know it takes alot of time but I d like to learn it anyway.
But for this spot tbh it must be +ev ott anyway^^ I just want to see the diff I think it is importent to know against which strategys how much it effect my turn+riverplay
When you chose turn you press multiple cards i.e str8 completing ones, board pairs, bricks and flushes. Everytime you have marked everycard in one group you press the where there's a number and like ... or --- don't remember. You give your group a name and press the right arrow. Keep doing so untill you got all groups figured. After that you just switch with the arrow between the groups depending on what run out you would want to do.
In my honest opinion it's quite obvious to me you can cbet ip with a rande advantage with backdoor str8draw, two overs, a-high and a bdfd (Probably for most sizings, even though i like a 33-50% pot bet here). Checking is also going to be +ev, it seems trivial wether you want to bet this combo or not on the flop, it just depends how you want to structure your range. Like I said i like betting rly wide for a small sizing to deny villain equity. Once you turn a oesd and bdfd we're obv betting and river seems kinda w/e. I'm not super stoked about bluffing, however I think we should as you say it's hard for you to have bluffs and we still do represent a bunch of value hands. I tend to get a bad feeling in these kind of spots because some people are just so weird when it comes to bluffcatching. I don't get why but i've been having a rly hard time getting folds the last couple of months in spots like these where it's super hard to have bluffs. Some regs tends to just call a lot, not sure why. I tend to do the opposite and rather overfold instead of overcalling when it's hard for villain to bluff. Since people itt wants to give up the river it seems like my decisions are semi good at least. But idk
I like it. River is probably the least +EV street of the hand but it's fairly difficult for you to arrive with enough bluffs here and so you'll need to bluff combos like this at least sometimes.
Flop is reasonable because many broadways missed, turn you pick up a strong semibluff. Kx should be too thin to shove river, I think you'll need something like 73+.
thanks sauce. I appreciate your comment.
seems like a rly nice over bet turn spot imo (this would be a spot I would use that sizing somewhat frequently)
Overbet push $130? I don't think it puts that big of a pressure on villain in this spot, and they probably won't make too many mistakes against it either.
I dont want to overbet. I want to bet big and have +ev bluffshove otr.
I might go thin for value here sometimes vs some players. Those midstackers some of them are not believer. So I like even jam smth like TT even tho it might very thin but I like to try sometimes^^
Flop sizing is too big no need to bet more then 1/3-1/2p.
Not sure i like turn and river, he pretty much doesnt fold anything ott that called flop so youre likely overbluffing betting every single fd, combo draw.If you`re barreling this you probably are barreling all of the 82ss, T8ss-A8ss, A9ss, + 8,9hh,dd combos as well and then some, so if anything you end up with way too many bluffs on the river which makes this one of the worst ones having the As.
Villain being a station sucks as well.
I make it here different from time to time. I dont have on that flop only one sizing.
This is also against SB and not vs big blind. So I can put more pressure by betting bigger since he rarely hits this flop.
Not sure what you guys think but really dont have that many bluffs
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