Thin barrels deepish 100NL Zoom

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Thin barrels deepish 100NL Zoom

BN: $198.24
SB: $140.56
BB: $100
UTG: $41.39
HJ: $49.50
CO: $176.04 (Hero)
Preflop ($1.50) (6 Players)
Hero was dealt 7 Q
UTG folds, HJ folds, Hero raises to $3, BN calls $3, SB folds, BB folds
Flop ($7.50) 8 9 2 (2 Players)
Hero bets $5, BN calls $5
Turn ($17.50) 8 9 2 2 (2 Players)
Hero bets $11, BN calls $11
River ($39.50) 8 9 2 2 T (2 Players)
Hero bets $25

It's kind of a scary spot on river because he starts to tank.

What do you think about the line?


11 Comments

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megatr0n 11 years, 5 months ago

I personally think it's pretty thin.. you do rep a strong a hand by 3 barreling and have the third nut flush .. im putting him a lot on pocket pairs on his turn call but cant see him call with worse on the river bet so I would prefer a c/c or c/f if you have some reads he has the FH

Chael Sonnen 11 years, 5 months ago

Don't see how you can play it any differently.
He will 3-bet 88/99/22 sometimes, and he'll raise them almost every time on the flop.
You only need to worry about a bigger flush or tens full. Again, TT might 3-bet pre, and since a lot of suited Ax combos are on the board, he'd have to have a big Ax, which might 3-bet pre or on the flop.

You bet the turn on a card that doesn't improve you. You hit the gin card which Villian expects you to bet, so you absolutely should.
Everyone gets raised in these spots sometimes. Just play the line to get max value, and break the hand down before making a decision, in case you do get raised.



whysoeasy 11 years, 5 months ago

First, don't really like the PF raise without any infos on anyone. Even more when BTN is deep and will be able to destroy us postflop. 

This is really unlikely villain 3bet 22,88-TT PF this deep. Agree that Axs is good to put in his 3bet range deep but we cannot be sure he 3bet them.

Flop: he should raise with set almost always, same for 89s but I disagree he might raise Ahxh on the flop a lot. Obviously it depending how villain play and think he see hero but I don't think it's a standard at 100NL to try to stack off with a nuts FD since it's at beast a flip (VS this {88+,JhTh,Th9h,98s} A5hh have 41.5% and Ah9h have 47%). Obviouly I don't discount them completely but I feel deep people play more straight forward and with a draw IP I feel they prefer just call to play the others streets, see what's happen, stab the turn if villain miss CB ... than try to go broke vs a strong range deep (people don't like big variance).

So that's was my thought about PF/FLOP, we can discuss about that because I really think it's an interesting hand.

Turn: There I start to get lost, I'm really not sure about the bet, we can have a lot of better FD with 2 overcards or value hands so I feel like betting Q7s is maybe too much. Thought ?

River: Even more lost. We rep very strong. I do not discount TT frop his range. Villain can have JJ but is he calling it river ? I don't think so. Even if he didn't have the odds turn he can have A9hh/Axhh. The fact that Th came automatically discount the smaller FD he could call with turn (T9hh, J9hh). So I'm really not sure what we are value betting river. In another hand, I also don't like c/c so ...


Really hope we can find out what to do because like I said, I think it really interesting and not that easy.

Like always feel free to criticize my post, it's for this reason I wrote it.


modernbuddha 11 years, 5 months ago

@whysoeasy. I agree that we can't discount 88, 99, 22, and TT from his preflop range because he may flat those given how deep we are. However, I do think that after the flop, we can discount 88, 99 and 22, since all sets should be 3-betting a flop this wet. 

I think Hero played this hand fine, except I would've bet larger OTT and OTR (perhaps, 3/4 pot for value?) 

Thoughts? 

CombatCarl 11 years, 5 months ago

He is unknown with 21/11/af0.0/3bet0.0   28 hands but I was thinking he seems a little bit fishy, I could be wrong though over such a small sample size. I just wanted to share the hand up until to the point where he started to tank on river without showing you what he actually ended up doing. He didn't fold his hand though and I didn't think that he was going to. 

CombatCarl 11 years, 5 months ago

What actually scared me was the prospect of deep bluff where he figures out that the our range is capped and decides that raise/big or raise/shove is +EV. Knowing this and seeing it come to fruition is pretty scary because I might not be able to fold even he does end up having it. For instance, over pairs that he decides to flat preflop that he turns into a bluff on river would be one of them.


whysoeasy 11 years, 5 months ago

The only thing that can make villain think your range is capped is your sizing that can be interpreted as a thin VB but overall river you can have 22,88-TT and nut flush. 

If he tank and raise like you said he can be bluffing thinking that because of your sizing your range is capped because you would bet bigger full/quads since he will call 100% if he hit flush. 

river if he raise his range for value look like TT, really occasionally 99,88 or 22 that he slow played and if he think that you cannot have full he can raise Ahxh for value.

About his bluff range he have to turn a made hand into a bluff and I don't see much,really. + if you think he is a bit fishy (did you see him limp or something or he just made his VPIP/PFR by cold calling raise ?) the he may not turn a hand into a bluff at all. So I would just fold.

plop85 11 years, 5 months ago

"He is unknown with 21/11/af0.0/3bet0.0"

"over pairs that he decides to flat preflop that he turns into a bluff on river would be one of them. "

Given those stats I think it`s an easy fold if he shoves the river. I think most of the players who decide to flat a big pair will raise almost any low flop especially the wet ones so they`re not inclined to slowplay both preflop and postflop that much.

I`m def betting bigger on the turn like 16/17.50 to maximize our FE. I noticed players fold more to a pot bet and call a 65-75% bet, so why not take the pot down on the turn more often

On the river against this V I think it`s an easy value bet but I`m going with a bigger size because I want him to just call with hands like 67s and QsJs and not raise them and he`s not going to fold an overpair anyway with the two deuces on the board.

You cand do two things to get more info on the players at the zoom tables.

1) After each session take like 30-40 minutes and watch the Instant hand history and see how big pots were played.

2) After the session press the observe button and leave the table open over night. In the morning you can go through the replay hand button and see how big pots were played and take notes on the players.

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