T9s Lost NL100
Posted by RaoulFlush
Posted by
RaoulFlush
posted in
Low Stakes
T9s Lost NL100
BB: $100
UTG: $100.15
HJ: $100 (Hero)
CO: $59
BN: $111.20
SB: $192.85
UTG: $100.15
HJ: $100 (Hero)
CO: $59
BN: $111.20
SB: $192.85
Preflop
($1.50)
(6 Players)
Hero was dealt
T
9
UTG folds, Hero raises to $3, CO folds, BN folds, SB raises to $11, BB calls $10, Hero calls $8
UTG folds, Hero raises to $3, CO folds, BN folds, SB raises to $11, BB calls $10, Hero calls $8
Flop
($33.50)
9
7
4
(3 Players)
SB bets $22,
BB calls $22,
Hero calls $22
Turn
($99.50)
9
7
4
Q
(3 Players)
SB checks,
BB checks
Pre is standard i guess given odds
Any Option than calling flop? I gues with BDSD´s and BDFD a fold is out of the question?
Do we have ebnough FE to jam this turn (vs TT/JJ/stronger 9X)? Or do we even have enough SDV to check back?
SB is unknown (maybe fish) playin 54/38 over 13 hands. 1st 3bet
BB is reg playin 25/23 over 96 hands...not enough sample for usuefull 3bp stats
Loading 13 Comments...
I just fold this pre normally.
OTF I expect BBs range to be pretty damn strong (99+ or something like it). So I think flop could even be a fold just because I don't think we're ever ahead of BB when he calls in this spot (which basically means pre is a fold).
Turn is interesting. When BB checks I think he almost always has TT or JJ, and I think he folds that if we jam. We probably have enough fold+pot equity vs the fish too, so I think I actually like a shove here.
Preflop is a standard flat, since we have a hand that is disguised, and we have implied odds. We're both 100BB effective, obvious flat IP.
I disagree with everything stated above(no offense). Jamming turn is not going to get Villain to fold his QK+QQ+ hand range, the only thing your getting to fold is everything that 9T is beating. VIllain isnt calling with worse, and isnt folding better, your 9T jam accomplished nothing but reduce an extra street where we can play postflop.
so, tlb, you would advocate a check back turn, fold river line? you didnt mention the JJ,TT or even a randomly palyed T9s hands in your post cauz BB could be 3betting/cbetting ATC and we might fold out these hands (BB) by shoving turn (maybe)
It's basically way ahead, way behind scenario. I Stoved VIllains ATC air hand range, and it only has around 20% equity VS out 9Ts on turn. While Villains Value range is ahead of our 9Ts equity wise.
I advocate a check back turn
1) Most Villain play Pretty bad on river-street
2) We have the implied odds for 9 spades+ 2 (9)+3 (T)=14 clean outs on river for us
3) Also by Checking turn, we can keep villains Air hand range in the hand, thus giving him a chance to bluff at pot on river-street, thus gaining an extra-bet.
**) We block Villains TT combinations, JJ is a likely candidate we could fold out on turn, but whats the difference in making JJ fold on turn, as opposed to river-street. Since essentially, we accomplish the same task.
**) Villains hand range is already Capped After he checks back on Turn, so i dont see how you cant profitably play a river street VS Villain IP...
***) My whole analysis is derived on this 1 point:
By shoving, we give Villain 1 less option of putting the money in with worse hand.
"Jamming turn is not going to get Villain to fold his QK+QQ+ hand range, the only thing your getting to fold is everything that 9T is beating."
Who do you mean when you say 'villain?' If you mean the SB I doubt he ever checks turn with any of the hands in that range and his range is certainly wider than that. If you mean BB, given the fishy stats of SB QQ+ is an easy 4bet pre. And even if doesn't 4bet them pre he's definitely value betting QQ/AQ on the turn (and possibly KK+ too, but that's closer).
I think a shove can get BB to fold better (TT-JJ, which I think is a large portion of his range given his preflop and turn lines) and I don't think we're behind SB that much either. Checking back turn is definitely better if SB checks Qx on this turn but given his preflop stats he's probably an aggro-monkey. It's close.
The above leads me to stand by my point that pre is pretty marginal. Unless BB cold calls 3bets a ton (and we don't have that read) his range crushes ours preflop. If we're 150bbs+ I think it becomes a call, but not 100bbs deep.
ur Jam accomplishes nothing but fold 9 Combos 3(TT)+6(JJ), out of his overall hand range. gl with that
Fwiw villain=Opponent in hand
PF-IP with 100 bb thats ok to flat
dont like to jam the turn,villan no gonna fold JJ+
and fold only hands that no good anyway
Readless i would fold this on the flop.
What can the BB hold that we beat on the flop?
i think your overestimating how tight a Blind 3-betting range is.
The BB cold calls the SB's 3bet.
If he had a strong range, shouldnt he be 4-betting??
If Villain had say AA, wouldn't he want the pot to be bloated. I dont think BB would want to play a multiway pot with the top % of his Blind Value range
I'm not saying his range is KK+ it's just not going to be T8s and A7s. I'd expect 99-JJ to make up most his range with a few heavily negated premiums from time to time. I don't think we'll see Ace high floats and 88 often enough.
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