starting micro stakes
Posted by Brucehero
Posted by
Brucehero
posted in
Low Stakes
starting micro stakes
hey everybody, i'm starting at the cash game and i have some basic doubts and i would like the opinion of the most experienced:
1) how many hands per day / month are considered reasonable for a professional player
2) how many screens played simultaneously are considered reasonable?
3) what are the main softwares for studying preflop and pos flop for beginners?
4) how many buy-ins are needed to move up?
5) which bb / 100 do you consider good to move up?
6) how many k hands played on each micro NL?
respecting the individuality of each one, there is no absolute rule, but it is interesting to have a pattern / model to be followed to optimize the evolution
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1) This depends heavilly on the format that you choose to play (zoom/regular tables and of course the amount of tables). But playing Fulltime will be arround 50-100k hands per month i guess. But i would highly recommend to focus a lot on studying (like 50/ of the time or so).
2) Do you mean screens or tables here? If playing the micros you should try to find a good balance between volume and amount of tables/hands that you play. While you still should focus on playing good poker and implement stuff that you recently learned, there is decent money to be made by simply playing solid ABC-poker.
Just experiment with this. Try 2-4 tables regular (on stars for instance there is only up to 4 tables allwoed to play simultainiously). Or start with 1-2 zoom tables.
3) Start with using a tracking software (if the site you play on allows it!). I would recommend pt4. Im using hem3 atm (which is ok as well). There is no need to start working with solvers. If you want to take a look at some equity-calculation, you might check out flopzilla (pc/mac) or pokercruncher (cellphone). These are cheap tools and easy to handle, but you will still learn a lot. Otherwise i recommend the essential programm here at RIO: That stuff is already pretty advanced and will boost your game a lot. You could also run the Course "From The Ground up" from Peter Clarke
4) Im usually taking shots if i have like 25 BI: So somwehere between 20 and 40 is what i hear from most players.
5) You need a really big sample to have a real grasp of your winrate. And this also depends on the limit. But i would say 5BB+/100 over 100k+ hands is good. But i would more stick to solid Bank roll management and how you feel about moving up yourself beside sticking to this number. If you have the money and feeld good today, why not simply play higher?
6) Variance will kick in hard here. So no real answer for this 1 i guess. Im stuck at NL25 at a soemewhat decent sample again :(
Cheers
1) Volume should not be your goal when starting out. This is a veryyyyyyyy tough time to get started in poker due to solver use. I would avoid Zone/Zoom/Fast Fold at the very beginning. Play 2 regular speed tables, concentrate, take notes, think stuff through, take the whole time bank, etc.
2) If you mean dual monitors, I like it. have the tables on one screen and some ranges, pot odds chards, fold equity needed charts, rough reads of their behaviors (RFI %, 3b%, 4b%, XR%, etc). If you mean tables, starting out I would go for two and you can add as you improve.
3) PT4/HM3, Flopzilla is a must I think (you can do so many things with it if you get creative), you also need something like Equilab Pro or PokerRanger or something you can do range vs range interaction on (Flopzilla basic does hand vs range, not sure if Flopzilla pro can do range vs range someone else can tell you that one).
4) Hard to have one answer here. You need a sample and a good idea of winrate over at least 50,000 to 100,00 hands. I just had a stretch a few months ago where I dropped 28+ buy-ins over the course of a few months. If I used the 30 buy in rule, I would have been in trouble. Newer players I would say 40+. Once you get a sample you can play around with the variance calculator on PrimeDope and it will give you a good idea about "risk of ruin". Here is the deal though, downswings will absolutely mess with your head. You find yourself studying big pots where you made the right play, it turned out bad for you and you beat yourself up over it. Took me a looooooooooooong time to get over that stuff.
5) I think the benchmark is like 5bb/100 at lower stacks. Rake is a nightmare here. Some rake is as high as 12bb/100. Imagine you are winning at 5bb/100 and paying that rake, you are taking 17bb/100 out of the game and destroying it. Rake starts to become less costly as you move up.
6) I would play enough at a stake until I feel confident every time I sit down that I am going to make good decisions and crush (results can be horrible for stretches even with good decisions). Can you run into 6 flopped sets vs your AA/KK in a session? Yes. Will it happen? Yes. Are you doing something wrong? Doubt it. Should I have not got the $$$$$ in on the flop and avoided paying off his set? NO. HIs range probably has 15 dominated combos that stack off and 6 that dominate you. Can he blast you 6 times in a row even though not likely? Yep.
Flopzilla pro offers range vs range equities btw
yeah I need to download it and play with it some
HawksWin
Do you work with GTO+? Because there is alicense of flopzilla pro included
HawksWin i don’t know if you are a solver guy or thinking about becoming one but flopzilla pro is awesome on its own and interfaces chef kisses fingers with gto+
RaoulFlush Yeah I have Flopzilla and I have Flopzilla Pro. I just haven't really opened or messed with Pro since I use PokerRanger for Range vs Range stuff and just basic flopzilla for hand vs range.
CrappyTimeSlot I have tried out GTO+ but I am a PIO guy. I had pio a long time before looking at gto+. I feel comfortable with PIO and prefer the interface better. I do appreciate the tip about the free license. I did not know that but I Have had Flopzilla for many many years so I get a free copy of Pro. I do feel intrigued by some of the grouping features.
1 Study more and play less volume until you improve.
-Get ranges memorized! Dont be like me and have to reinvent the wheel every two months because you’ve been winging it!
-read forums and watch an intro course. Ask questions
-get poker friends
2 How many tables? Depends on game, site, apps used. Start low, go slow as you increase
3 tools?
-Buy a databse program asap if you can get hand histories.
-Next, buy or save up for Flopzilla pro or equilab for preflop and postflop. I think there’s a discount for flopzilla pro and gto+ if your computer can handle it. You will not need gto for a long time.
-But also - POST HANDS AND TALK ABOUT HANDS. This is the most vital thing
4 Bankroll required? 50-100 at the new stake if you are not crushing. 30-50 if you are. Move down after 5,10,20 lost depending on how ambitious the shot is. I am a nit and far better at mtt so i play with 100 BI
5 your winrate matters by position. You need like 15k hands in each position to get a feel for how they’re going. That’s 90k hands. Focus on good play first, not the number.
6 what HawksWin said. Basically you should be doing ok riding out a downswing mentally and in your bankroll before you're ready to move up again, once you’re playing 25nl and up
7 (free unsolicited advice :)) think about games with softer fields, whatever they are on your site. Swim where the water is warm, where there’s no sharks. If your goal is to be a 1k NL crusher, you will take years to get there anyway. Might as well start where you get to build a bankroll and get practice at the level you should be at - with the biggest edge you can have against your opponents.
Examples
-i am much better at mtt than 6max, so i play those as often as my brain and calendar will accommodate
-if i see a terrible plo table i will play it and nut peddle
-if i see a great game i will step down in stakes to try my hand at crushing it
So Flopzilla Pro is the "next step" before starting with GTO? I'm kinda in the same situation - starting with micros and I guess GTO is just not needed yet.
I considering to continue with from the ground up-course also in order to have a gameplan and an overview.
If you are already a member, there’s a “starting out” video somewhere on the learning path
FTGU is a big commitment but I found it worth it. Take notes.
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