So I called a 4bet with jacks - where do I go next?
Posted by MattS
Posted by
MattS
posted in
Low Stakes
So I called a 4bet with jacks - where do I go next?
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50 (5 Players)
BN: $54.38 (Hero)
SB: $53.21
BB: $134.90
UTG: $71.97
CO: $56.57
SB: $53.21
BB: $134.90
UTG: $71.97
CO: $56.57
20/14 who actually 4bets a lot of his range. Very tight on the button. He's only a little tight under the gun (14%) and has a very high Ft3b OOP 62% and a 4bet% 3.1%. I have never seen him purely bluff.
Preflop
($0.75)
Hero is BN with
J
J
, , , , ,
Flop
($27.75)
5
2
8
,
Turn
($53.05)
5
2
8
7
He just has like no draws in his turn range and I think I should be folding here.
And if I'm folding here, should I just always flat JJ against this guy preflop and populate my 3betting range with the big guns (AA,KK,AK) blockers(AXs, KXs)?
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I usually don't like flatting (other than BB) but vs. this type of player it can be fine as a mix.
I also like 3 betting JJ here, just sized down to like $3.5 to $3.75. We get a better price on our bluffs and we get a better price (usually) facing a 4b. We are set mining vs 18 combos and are just a flip vs AK/AQs. If we choose to go after this guy and make more polarizing bet sizes, I would start with QQ vs this type.
In high rake environments playing 3b or fold for fairly large sizings IP tends to be optimal unless you have a read on the player pool/individual that would suggest otherwise. Not saying this is entirely wrong but basically in theory you really don't want to see flops even IP with a range advantage because the rake just kills your EV.
Using that strategy, then JJ should be a fold pre. We get 4b 3+x by a very snug range. Essentially were are set mining?? after putting in 27bb??. SPR less than 1.5. Still overcards in his range that can be betting here. And, not to mention, about the best flop in the world (never has sets, blocker vs flush draws which is relevant since he doesn't have much Jxss in his range to begin with). If this snug dude is elastic with his range, he is either calling or dumping TT-88 vs a big 3b which is not a great result for us when his worst pair is JJ. If he is an inelastic rec (which makes no sense from the stats, PFR size), then I think bigger is 3b is probably fine.
Not sure about sample size, but I would always chose to size down my 3b IP vs a guy who "looks" to fold to often vs 3b. Again, if he is adjusting to sizing, we get to flops in a better position (again, making assumptions).
Again, vs. a standard 17-19% UTG open range, I agree we can go bigger. Vs. a 12 to 14% UTG range and a history of folding to 3b, I would chose the smaller size.
You call turn otherwise you are exploitable: you get it on with AA-QQ pre and call JJ and fold turn which is a problem.
With that being said, don't 3bet this pre, just call. You'd be surprised on how overvalued people think 3betting here is with even a hand as strong has QQ. If you want to play 3bet fold with your pairs, then just 3bet smaller.
Snowie thinks 3betting JJ in this spot for your size has the same EV as calling, so can we use that information and your HUD to exploit your opponent? Unlikely here vs this guy with our JJ-88 type hands. But we can start 3betting with Axs and small suited connectors and adjust that way instead.
If you do something because "otherwise you are exploitable" rather than because you think it's making money then the reality of the situation is that you're setting money on fire. Doesn't mean calling is wrong, I think it's a fairly close spot depending on opponent tendencies but don't just flick it in because they might exploit you. It's honestly way too flattering to your opponents to assume that they're good enough to exploit you a lot of the time as well, people are not clairvoyant and just have to take educated guesses at what your strategy is and how to counter it and at 50nl these adjustments will be imprecise at best.
Also preflop with 50nl rake you should probably play 3b or fold for around this sizing as I say in my other comment, also against most players their 4B here will be way too tight so the EV of 3b increases while EV of flatting is the same so even without rake I'm inclined to pure 3B this vs 50nl regs.
Agree with GTO Warrior here. I guess we will have to switch vs ppl who tend to 4bet light (expect this number to be 4bet range?) from a linear range to polar to avoid this spot.
So i would simply play 3b/gii or 3b/F here and start flatting hands like 99-JJ AQ/AJs.
As played: imo your hand is kind of face up and i dont expect to get barrels here from random overcards often enough to justify a call OTT
Thanks for sharing, I tend to just flat with JJ and QQ preflop especially from an UTG raise. If the player was MP or CO I would feel more comfortable 3 betting because his opening range is a bit wider, Maybe I give too much respect to UTG preflop range but when I tend to 3bet with JJ or QQ I can find myself getting in trouble. I think take into the account he opened from UTG and use the power of position post flop.
This can also keep the pot small and you can raise the flop to kind of see where UTG is at. If you raise flop and he calls you can narrow his range to over pairs and some AK/AQ combos.
Also, something I have been trying to add to my game is to plan out those streets. When you call the flop, you need to be planning to call a turn bet as well. Take a second to think about how you're going to navigate the turn before you call a flop bet. Folding flop could be nitty but think if you are willing to call 3 streets with JJ and get the chips in.
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