Shoving AK to 3-bets in 100BB games?
Posted by Chael Sonnen
Posted by
Chael Sonnen
posted in
Low Stakes
Shoving AK to 3-bets in 100BB games?
Scenario 1: I open AK and I get 3-bet, I 4-bet, and he calls.
I miss the flop and get (check-)shoved on and I have to fold, while almost being commited, which is gross.
Scenario 2: You get 3-bet with AK in position and you flat and miss the flop.
You basically wasted a monster, and what's the plan now? Float dry boards and hope he checks the turn? Most competent regs will usually fire two barrels after having 3-bet pre, and I don't like this strategy.
Let's say we open 3x and get 3-bet to 10x by the BB. We can now win 10.5BB + our 3BB if we shove and take it down.
Problems when doing that:
-Villian can fold a ton of hands that might have 5-bet shoved, had you 4-bet (small).
Hands like 77, AQo, KQs etc. are all 3-bettable hands, and if you make it look like a bluff, they will be very tempted to get it in light.
-Players who've seen you shove to a single 3-bet with AK will now what you have, and make the correct decision.
And if they do that, we're going to have to balance by including hands that are not AK.
Then it will just because a shovefest, which is definitely not the most profitable way to play poker against good players.
So what do you guys think about all this?
I feel like I'm burning money in raised pots with AK when I 4-bet, when I flat 3-bets (which I rarely do), and even when I sometimes shove to 3-bets.
Thoughts? Adjustments?
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You can start with 4-betting smaller and cbetting AK in a frequency that makes it a losing play for you opponent to shove mid pairs.
For instance the flop is 922, you 3bet preflop to 24bb?
Pot is 50bb and stacks behind are 75. If your opponent gets it in against overpairs he has 8% equity, which is 16/200bb, and he puts in 76bb, thus he loses 60bb for every time you have JJ-AA.
Now if you cbet 18bb, the pot gets 66bb, if he shoves we wins 66bb. So you need to have an overpair here at least 66/(60+66) = 52%.
JJ-AA is 24 combos and AK only 16, so even if you cbet AK 100% your range is still +EV against his shove.
But that does not mean that it is the most profitable option, since you can check behind with AK and realize some of your equity. This becomes increasingly good if your opponent never calls with worse hands and always shoves better.
Of course he can still have QQ/KK so your equity from bet calling JJ isn't that high, and hence you should check back AK even more. Also if you want to balance your checkbacks on really dry boards you can do it with AA, since AA is the least likely hand to get outdrawn. However against someone that check shoves a ton in 4-bet pots you should just bet/call AA.
4-bet shoving AK can be a good strategy, but only under rare circumstances. It should not be your standard line against anyone. It becomes best if your opponents doesn't 3-bet bluff, he mostly 3-bets pairs and not many AQ type hands, he will mostly call those pairs to a 4-bets and tries to play them perfect against a perceived range of {AK}. That is, if there is an A/K on the flop he check folds, otherwise he check shoves.
There is extra value in shoving against that type of player since you will always realize your equity instead of your opponent not putting in the last 75bb after the flop contains an A/K. He might fold some of his weaker pocket pairs against a shove that would call a normal 4-bet.
Scenario 2: If you're flatting a hand like AK pre to a 3 bet it actually protects your range really well postflop because you can float a lot of boards where your ace or king is likely to get bluffed when you hit or value bet too thinly. Additionally, it gives you a hand that you can chose to showdown with its high card value or turn into a bluff in spots where you're going to have few bluffs left in your floating range.
4 bet jamming vs 3 bets is something that CTS used to do back in 2007 or something because he got people to call off with all kinds of stupid hands once they'd seen him get it in with stuff like A2ss. I think it's probably not the best tactic nowadays and if you start doing it a bunch I would imagine that regulars will adjust by 3 betting smaller versus you (giving you less money to go after with your jam) and alter their 3 betting ranges accordingly.
It sounds like your problems are more so that you don't feel comfortable playing post flop rather than having a problem with pre flop play. The best way to get better at post flop play is to discuss hands with people, play hands, take notes and by doing off the table work. Don't take preflop shortcuts because you're not confident in your post flop game. Just get better post flop :)
Yeah, I agree with the above. You don't have to cbet 100% w/ AK, especially in the position like you describe in situation 1. As GameTheory said as well, your range will be protected by the amount of AA-JJ you hold so just bet a frequency which makes him indifferent to shoving with his bluff-catching hands (mid pairs, etc).
There are some instances where you could bet-call. A similar situation is 3-betting short stacks, where a cbet will almost commit you. I often cbet/call A-hi against the right opponents.
Listen to James and improve your post-flop play. He can play a bit.
Edited to say: You may also have a problem with folding in large pots. It is completely ok to bet-fold in 3bet/4bet pots if your analysis tells you it is the right play. This is something you may be struggling with.
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