Should i switch to MTTs?

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Should i switch to MTTs?

Hey so ive been playing zoom 6 max for the past year i dont do anything else as i went all in on it paused my college year and everything....after half a year i was rly crushing the limits all the way to NL25 zoom where i ran 5bb100 for 200k hands but then suddenly i had a major tilt downswing where i lost 50% of my bankroll and i was forced to play NL10 again the thing is all of a sudden i started to become break even even tho i put in so much of my time into studying every spot every player tendencies and all that stuff so i became hugely demotivated,I usually play 8-10k hands per day and after playing for that long for days when u dont get results its rly hard...so i was wondering should i try MTTs and SNGs? I saw there are alot of rec players who dont rly know what they are doing in them and it might be profitable? I just feel like i wasted so much studying on 6 max if i change now,your oppinions?

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Kalupso 5 years, 7 months ago

What's going to change if you move to MTTs? Won't the same problems follow into MTTs?

I would question your methods if you struggle to beat 25nl zoom and working full time on it for 6 months. I played 30k hands around 25nl and 50nl zoom this winter after moving to EU sites again after a year on PokerMaster. These low stakes zoom games are beatable for a huge amount. 25nl I think 13+bb/100 isn't too difficult, 10bb/100 at 50nl isn't too difficult and l know 100nl can be beaten for 7bb+/100 without being close to a top player.

All I'm doing with this is like opening your mind to the possibility that you might have to change your methods and made hire a coach who has a high 100nl zoom or 200nl zoom win rate AND can coach. It won't be cheap compared to what you can make at 50nl but should be well worth it long term.

usually play 8-10k hands per day

Maybe a leak. I mean too much volume. Doesn't matter if you play hands breakeven or -EV for the bottom line.

A high volume player that doesn't have good methods to improve could be one of few players for whom joining a good MTT stable with backing and coaching can make sense. I generally think it's a bad idea because of makeup, giving up winnings and how difficult it's to make a living from MTTs. You also have to like MTTs to some degree.

Kruzer20 5 years, 7 months ago

Yeah i was considering about a coach but i thought i could learn by myself untill i get to higher stakes by watching these videos here and i put work in my database and flopzilla which i did for a time but now recently for last 2 months im going no where...its not like i dont know what to do in some spots i have in my head % of how much combos my villians have that will call or fold and base my decisions on that but recently its been going not so good.
Btw where did u find those winrates stats,its still possible to get that in 2019? I dont think i saw a single reg on this limit with anything close to that winrate,most of them arent that good not to be offensive but thats just my oppinion

Kalupso 5 years, 7 months ago

Maybe time to exchange flopzilla for a solver for some of your study? I don't think flopzilla is bad in any way but you miss out on a lot by not using a solver. I mean long term and not over 2-3 months because there is a learning curve with solvers.

Kruzer20 5 years, 7 months ago

i do have GTO+ but i stopped using it because i felt it was pointless to use it on this limits where no one plays GTO even tho i did some nodelocking to try to sum up what are ppl doing differently

ohgodwhy 5 years, 6 months ago

side question: why would you want to play on Stars? I've been off for a while but isn't the rake still ridiculously high there at least on the micros?

Kruzer20 5 years, 6 months ago

Best software and has the most fish+u can use HUD which is the most important thing for me i dont like playing vs unknowns

ohgodwhy 5 years, 6 months ago

Well yes, these are certainly some pro arguments but at least for me they just don't outweigh the fact that you have to pay that much more rake to get them. Are you at least aware of how much BB/100 you precisely pay in rake and by how much more you have to crush your stakes to achieve the same winrate/hourly than on other sites?

Kruzer20 5 years, 6 months ago

theres like 6-7bb on this limits in rake yea i know which means i have to win more than that which i do but still i remember few months ago i tried to compare same volume i had on partypoker(when they had HUDs) and pokerstars and results were interesting there were more spewy fishy players on pokerstars so i was making more money from that compared to partypoker+of its 30% rakeback due to regfest on that limit,and from then untill now i stayed on pokerstars.I havent tried other sites tho

Deactivated User 5 years, 7 months ago

Kruzer20 That's a common beginner's leak when using solvers. Using a solver is always helpful and applicable in today's games. GTO is a foundation to go upon - you find exploitable holes in your opponent's strat and then deviate from GTO as is appropriate to play the most EV lines against them.

Start using GTO+ and legitimately studying range v range analysis with Flopzilla. It's worth it.

Kruzer20 5 years, 7 months ago

Could u describe in few sentances how do u study vs particular players? So u nodelock what u think they will do in which spot depending on their strats and u get counter strategy,but i dont think its helpful that much because u can do same thing with flopzilla if u adjust the combos and % properly and then just see if u have enoug equity to make desired play,no?

Eldora 5 years, 6 months ago

I haven't done much work with Flopzilla yet but I assume some big advantages of the solver-nodelocking approach are:

  • Detecting leaks of the pool / your opponents. Example: You notice a certain texture should be check-raised 25% of the time but you already know they might at most reach 10-15%. Thus you can nodelock this and might find that you can now cbet 100% of your range instead of 65% before. But without the solver you might have never found out how much check-raising should be done on certain boards
  • Learning about multi-street approaches with value but also especially bluffing candidates. Example: You might find new bluffing candidates or detect you picked the wrong bluffs in different spots (for instance in some spots you might overvalue blockers as bluffing candidates but in other spots you might overvalue equity compared to blockers and so on). Regarding value it might reveal some slowplay candidates you haven't thought of.
  • I think it should be a much faster process

On the contrary one big plus of constructing the ranges manually in non-solver software is an enhanced learning curve because you are more involved with the ranges compared to just clicking through what the solver says. So it might have more direct effects on translating your study work to in-game ability. So there should be great value in combining both study methods.

Regarding a possible switch to MTTs: If you would decide to do so I don't think the work you've put into your 6-max game will be anything close to wasted. MTTs have lots of additional concepts and you have to tweak your 6max knowledge to integrate different stack sizes / play with lower SPR postflop and do a lot of different preflop and ICM work. But your general postflop capabilities will be super powerful for MTTs in general.

Holonomy 5 years, 6 months ago

A big no to this point about flopzilla + equity being the same. If you could solve using range + equity analysis the whole PIO/monker algorithms (and GTO in general) would be a lot simpler. For a start using that approach it seems hard to see how you would develop mixed strategies. Also it removes at least one set of assumptions from your analysis. If you nodelock you are forcing a mistake from villain but PIO then allows the villain to play perfectly afterwards. You would have to make an assumption based on how much they fold as well as the range that you are nodelocking when considering say, a raise. as another risk it then becomes very easy to justify plays post hoc.

I think flopzilla has good value for giving starting points and a user friendly interface for constructing range assumptions and feel for what a range looks like in certain spots (although PIO does have Range Explorer). I just want to strongly make the point that + raw equity vs range is not even close to being the same as PIO/Monker.

Deactivated User 5 years, 6 months ago

Eldora I never wound up buying Pio but I have no affiliation with Flopzilla or CREV/GTO+ at all. I'm just a fan. GTO+ and the new FZPro are what's new though so that's what everyone's talking about these days.

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